Obama pro/con

Voegelin · Mar 3, 2008

Polycarp1 said:
Further to the Farrakhan mess, it was not Obama, or even his church, who honored Farrakhan, but a magazine. Run by two women. Who happen to be the daughters of the pastor who founded the church Obama attends, a couple or three decades ago.

Why is it a "mess"? It is what it is, is it not?

The magazine is called "The Trumpet". Few months ago, Barak Hussein Obama was on the cover.

Go to http://www.youtube.com/

Search on:

Trumpet Gala 2007 Farrakhan

You will see a video presentation of Farrakhan being honored by Obama's church. Farrakhan was given a "life-time achievement" award--an award named after Obama's pastor, Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr.

The Rev Jim Wallis was quoted in the Feb 22, 2007 issue of Rolling Stone Magazine (Destiny's Chiild) as saying this about Rev. Wright and Obama:

"If you want to understand where Barack gets his feeling and rhetoric from just look at Jeremiah Wright."

Wallis, as you may recall, is no conservative.

BlessEwe · Mar 3, 2008

No skeletons in Obama's closet, so I see people will try anything to discredit him. I do hope he keeps on with how he has been, It makes me like him even more!

Ringo84 · Mar 3, 2008

Voegelin said:
I wouldn't feel "right at home" in a church which honors the Nation of Islam and gave Louis Farrakhan a life-time achievement award.

Been noticing Obama has made a point of denying what no one is seriously claiming--that he is a Muslim--while not mentioning at all what sort of Christianity his pastor and his church teach.

A transparent tactic.

A transparent tactic, huh?

So is making an issue about a person's middle name, out of a flag lapel pin and the beliefs of one's church.
Ringo

Ringo84 · Mar 3, 2008

Obama would probably be better off not even giving these ridiculous allegations about being a Muslim the time of day. They're so ridiculous that they don't deserve his attention. And by defending himself, he's just justifying the attacks from some Republicans who wish to make this an issue.
Ringo

NeTrips · Mar 3, 2008

IIRC it wasn't the GOP that brought these allegations up in the first place. I think it was Ted K that first refered to Obama as Osama Obama....

MacCoyle · Mar 3, 2008

RealDealNeverstop said:
Who would obama appoint as Sec of Def? Who would make up cabinet members?

I am hoping he does Lincoln/Kennedy style appointies, that means chosing his intellectual equals,but I don't really know.

ElephantsAreAwesome · Mar 3, 2008

Ringo84 said:
Obama would probably be better off not even giving these ridiculous allegations about being a Muslim the time of day. They're so ridiculous that they don't deserve his attention. And by defending himself, he's just justifying the attacks from some Republicans who wish to make this an issue.
Ringo

He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim. His dad was muslim and he attended a muslim school during his youth; years that are very impressionable in a kids' life. And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing. It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him. And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

NeTrips · Mar 3, 2008

OK, actually I love saying "I told you so" to anti-war weenies who've thrown away their brains.

Sen. "He's Not A Muslim" claimed in a debate that American soldiers in Afghanistan forced to rely on captured Taliban weapons and ammo because "it's easier to get weapons from the Taliban than from their Commander-in-Chief." I called BS on him, a call that was echoed through the media.

Many Bush-bashers insisted the story must be true because "Bush sucks." That's considered an argument by the American Left.

But Jack Jacobs, a retired Army colonel and Imus regular is no friend of Bush, and he confirms what every person I've told to who's served in Afghanistan has told me:

But last week, during his debate with Clinton, Obama tried speaking about substance when he mentioned the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and he displayed an astounding ignorance of the military instrument. He said that an anonymous U.S. Army captain told him that his infantry platoon was split and sent to different areas of operations; that they were lacking vehicles; and that they had insufficient ammunition to fight.

Although problems do occur in combat situations to be sure, none of what Obama related makes any sense and is, according to people with whom I spoke, untrue. Units the size of platoons are not sent to separate theaters, ammunition has been plentiful, and an investigation indicates that the unit in question was missing only one of its Humvees, all to no peril of the unit.

In other words, Sen. "Not A Muslim" had no idea what he was talking about. But the mainsteam media ignored it, possibly because the Illinois senator not understanding military matters simply isn't news.

http://thenaturaltruth.blogspot.com/2008/02/i-hate-to-say-i-told-you-so.html

Ringo84 · Mar 3, 2008

ElephantsAreAwesome said:
He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim. His dad was muslim and he attended a muslim school during his youth; years that are very impressionable in a kids' life. And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing. It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him. And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim

He wasn't.

What if he was though? I thought we believed in religious freedom in this country.

His dad was muslim

So what?

he attended a muslim school during his youth

Does attending a Catholic school make one Catholic?

And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing.

He was dressed in traditional African garb in that picture. Sorry to disappoint you.

It very well could be that he's a closet muslim

This sounds like the fear-mongering that took place about JFK, a Catholic, and Romney, a Mormon.

And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

Or perhaps the allegations are so ridiculous, he isn't giving them the attention they don't deserve.
Ringo

Adivi · Mar 3, 2008

ElephantsAreAwesome said:
He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim.

So if he was Muslim at one point (which I'm not saying he was) but converted to Christianity, he'd still be bad in your sight?

And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing.

Here is a picture of Bush wearing Chinese garb, and here is one of him performing an African dance. What is he hiding about his Chinese-African roots?
My point is that it is possible to wear a culture's clothing without being part of that culture. If I take, for example, karate lessons and don the traditional gi, that doesn't make me Chinese.

It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career.

Yes, this is a possibility, but given a lack of evidence, it is a very remote one.

And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

Did you look at all? He has an entire page on barackobama.com devoted to dispelling this myth.

And this whole issue is rather pointless: why should a Muslim not be able to be president anyway?

Voegelin · Mar 3, 2008

NeTrips said:
IIRC it wasn't the GOP that brought these allegations up in the first place. I think it was Ted K that first refered to Obama as Osama Obama....

On his own website, Obama says the Muslim call to prayer is "''one of the prettiest sounds on Earth . . ."

Personally, I like church bells better. Or hymns. Gregorian chants. Christmas carols.

TexasSky · Mar 3, 2008

brinny said:
Obama does not believe in Jesus Christ. I heard him say this myself during an interview. I do not remember the details except that one statement, it stuck in my mind. If I were you I'd research this diligently.

You obviously heard something incorrectly.

You probably heard him say, "People say that I don't....," and did not hear the "people say," part.

Jacey · Mar 3, 2008

ElephantsAreAwesome said:
He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim. His dad was muslim and he attended a muslim school during his youth; years that are very impressionable in a kids' life. And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing. It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him. And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

ElephantsAreAwesome, are you a muslim?
ElephantsAreAwesome, have you ever been a muslim?
ElephantsAreAwesome, is your mother a muslim?
ElephantsAreAwesome, is your father a muslim?
ElephantsAreAwesome, have you ever dressed in anything but jeans and t-shirt?
ElephantsAreAwesome, are you only pretending to be a christian?
ElephantsAreAwesome, please add in any additional information about your life until now that you would like us to know so that we may cross-examine you on it later.

Polycarp1 · Mar 3, 2008

ElephantsAreAwesome said:
He needs to address the issue of was he ever a muslim. His dad was muslim and he attended a muslim school during his youth; years that are very impressionable in a kids' life. And the recent photos that have surfaced appear to have him dressed up in muslim clothing. It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him. And the fact that he hasn't directly addressed the allegations makes it all the more suspicious.

1. Barack Hussein Obama Sr., father of the candidate, was born a Muslim but either apostatized or simply became non-practicing, depending on which sources you rely on.

2. The candidate's parents divorced when he was quite young, and he remained with his mother.

3. While his mother (and IIRC stepfather) were in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he attended a private school not run by any religious group. Given the ethnoreligious composition of the country, though, the majority of his fellow students were Muslim.

4. He posed once for a picture dressed in traditional Somali clothing -- in tribute to his Somali heritage. That is being touted as "Muslim" clothing -- as opposed, I guess, to "Christian" clothing. (Which, if we stick to scripture, would be loincloth and robe, not shirt and pants -- think about it.)

5. "It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him." Why is this? Do you have the slightest reason to make such a scurrilous allegation?

TexasSky · Mar 3, 2008

Ringo84 said:
Obama would probably be better off not even giving these ridiculous allegations about being a Muslim the time of day. They're so ridiculous that they don't deserve his attention. And by defending himself, he's just justifying the attacks from some Republicans who wish to make this an issue.
Ringo

Ringo,

I think that you are right, but I also think that a part of him must really, really hurt when he hears people claim he does not love Christ.

Obama searched for God, and Obama's place in life, for a very long time before committing his life to Christ. When he did commit his life to Christ, he believed, very strongly, that faith without action was not real faith.

He also was the first Christian in the campaign to ask people to pray, to say that we cannot do what needs to be done without Christ.

Yet - people continue to tell the world he is not a Christian.

That is so hurtful.

I'm actually surprised the Moderators allow it on this forum so often. Isn't one of the policies that you cannot call a self-professing Christian "non-Christian"? Does that only apply to members of the forum?

TexasSky · Mar 3, 2008

Polycarp1 said:
1. Barack Hussein Obama Sr., father of the candidate, was born a Muslim but either apostatized or simply became non-practicing, depending on which sources you rely on.

2. The candidate's parents divorced when he was quite young, and he remained with his mother.

3. While his mother (and IIRC stepfather) were in Indonesia, a Muslim country, he attended a private school not run by any religious group. Given the ethnoreligious composition of the country, though, the majority of his fellow students were Muslim.

4. He posed once for a picture dressed in traditional Somali clothing -- in tribute to his Somali heritage. That is being touted as "Muslim" clothing -- as opposed, I guess, to "Christian" clothing. (Which, if we stick to scripture, would be loincloth and robe, not shirt and pants -- think about it.)

5. "It very well could be that he's a closet muslim and has only pretended to be a Christian to help his political career. I wouldn't put this past him." Why is this? Do you have the slightest reason to make such a scurrilous allegation?

THat isn't quite right.

His mother was a Catholic, and while Obama did attend, for a few years, a public school in Indonesia, his mother transferred him to a private Catholic school in Indonesia, where he studied the majority of his time in Indonesia.

As to the accusation that he might be Muslim pretending to be Christian. Muslims believe that will send them to hell, and they believe it gives other Muslims the duty to kill. No Muslim would do it.

Ringo84 · Mar 3, 2008

[sarcasm]He thinks that Muslim prayers are pretty? Outrageous!

That proves he's a Muslim![/sarcasm]

I'll tell you what: this stuff is so ridiculous that it parodies itself.
Ringo

TexasSky · Mar 3, 2008

TexasSky said:
THat isn't quite right.

His mother was a Catholic, and while Obama did attend, for a few years, a public school in Indonesia, his mother transferred him to a private Catholic school in Indonesia, where he studied the majority of his time in Indonesia.

As to the accusation that he might be Muslim pretending to be Christian. Muslims believe that will send them to hell, and they believe it gives other Muslims the duty to kill. No Muslim would do it.

And he HAS addressed the issue.

All of what follows is from the Washington DC Associated Press:

""f anyone is still puzzled about the facts, in fact I have never been a Muslim," he told the Jewish leaders in Cleveland, according to a transcript of the private session.

It was not his Father, it was his GRANDFATHER, who was Muslim. " "My father never practiced; he was basically agnostic."

A debunked chain e-mail circulating widely on the Internet suggests he is hiding his Islamic roots.

Another false report says he attended a Muslim madrassa school as a child in Jakarta. Obama was born in Hawaii and moved to Indonesia when he was 6 to live with his mother and stepfather. He returned to Hawaii when he was 10 to live with his maternal grandparents. Interviews last year by The Associated Press at the elementary school in Jakarta found that it is a public and secular institution and has been open to students of all faiths since before Obama attended in the late 1960s. Said vice principal Akmad Solichin: "Yes, most of our students are Muslim, but there are Christians as well. Everyone's welcome here."

Farrakhan did not endorse Obama.

Asked Tuesday night whether he would accept support from Farrakhan, Obama said: "I live in Chicago. He lives in Chicago. I've been very clear, in terms of me believing that what he has said is reprehensible and inappropriate. And I have consistently distanced myself from him."

Following an exchange with Clinton, he then added: "There's no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word 'reject' Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word 'denounce,' then I'm happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce."

MacCoyle · Mar 3, 2008

Voegelin said:
On his own website, Obama says the Muslim call to prayer is "''one of the prettiest sounds on Earth . . ."

Personally, I like church bells better. Or hymns. Gregorian chants. Christmas carols.

IMHO The Muslim ones sound much cooler.

Polycarp1 · Mar 3, 2008

Texas Sky: Thanks for the correction. I knew about the secular private school; I did not know about the Catholic school. In any case, our mutual point is that he did not attend a madrassah as a child.

Voegelin: The Trumpet is the magazine I was referencing. magazine =/= church. See TexasSky's post #55 in re Obama's position in re Farrakhan.

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