Obama & His Military Incomptence

[Verv]

When politicians talk about the military things always get ugly. It usually gets particularly ugly when we are forced to listen to doves talk about it... And get everything absolutely wrong.

The Pentagon speaks out:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon on Friday cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a debate with rival Hillary Clinton.

During the face-to-face encounter on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain whose unit had served in Afghanistan without enough ammunition or vehicles.

Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was "to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief," President George W. Bush.
​

Here is a little military lesson for you guys:
The job of the President is to determine national policy.

The job of getting ammunition to the troops is up to G1 and J1 of the individual units. This means "General's Staff 1" and "Joint Staff 1." A G1 and a J1 will be in charge of supply and personnelle.

The General consults his G1/J1 and makes supply demands that go up and orders are made to centralized areas of the Army that deal with it... Then they are distributed...

Do you see the President of the US anywhere in this practice?

can you imagine what would happen if the President was taking time out of his day to conduct meetings with every J1/G1 and S1 (S1 is battalion level staff) to say...

"Dudes, are you doing your job and getting needed supply?" Even if the President did not require sleep and had a 24 hour workday, he would not be able to do this.
I wonder if Obama has so much audacity of hope that he thinks when he is President he will be functioning as the J1, G1 and S1 of every deployed unit in the military.

"I find that account pretty hard to imagine," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.
"Despite the stress that we readily acknowledge on the force, one of the things that we do is make sure that all of our units and service members that are going into harm's way are properly trained, equipped and with the leadership to be successful," he said.
Whitman's remarks were unusual as the Pentagon often declines to talk about comments from political campaigns.
​

Well, it is hard for them to not comment when people are outright telling lies and exaggerations. The Pentagons job focuses on provision of intelligence. Imagine if they let people continue to tell lies and bring up such heresay and actually allow us to have such an ignorant of a voting pool.

Obama said the captain was the head of a rifle platoon, which should have had 39 members -- but 15 were sent to Iraq so the unit deployed to Afghanistan had 24 soldiers.
​

Reuters

The comedy continues -- Obama now spoke with a Captain who commands a platoon? That is like saying a Specialist who is an NCOIC (Non-commissioned officer in charge) of a Platoon when a specialist would in all likelihood not even be a squad leader.

Obama is bringing up ridiculous heresay stories that do not even register with truth in the simplest of details (and shows his own ignorance of the military that he hopes to micromanage)

And that's who people think is the most viable candidate for United States President.

 

[USMC4Life]

We got plenty of vehicles. We got plenty of ammo. Never have had the problem of "Oh, sorry we can't give you ammo and your going to have to walk to the mission without a gun."

 

[Voegelin]

Had he been truly concerned, as a U.S. Senator, he would have called in some Brass and asked questions.

Bringing this up (a years old story, btw) at a political event is despicable.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Jumping the gun on this one Jmerville. The events happened in the summer of 03' when the Captain was a Lt and that is norm rank to be in charge of a rifle platoon. The Lt left Ft Drum with only 24 out of the original 39 when he took command of the platoon. As for equipment shortage, your own reuters link recounts a discussion in Kuwait where Rumsfeld is asked about the shortage. There have also been several reports of troops not having armored vehicles and kevlar. Many from families of the soldiers.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Also, obama never claimed Bush would be involved on the day to day. His point was bush sent our troops to war ill equipped and as commander in chief he is responsible for making sure the military is equipped for the missions he sends them on. There was a two day period during Desert Storm where myself and a couple of others took AK-47's because we ran out of M-16 ammo. Nothing about the anecdote rings untrue from my pov.

 

[Verv]

One thing about that, Real Deal, though, is that the Generals must keep the troops ready and their peace time mission is preparatiion for war.

The humvee doesn't have uparmor on it to begin with because it was never meant to be a vehicle to fight battles out of but now we have realized the error of this and are changing our ways.

During Desert Storm the commander of 3rd Infantry Division reported that his unit was not fit to go to battle (of course he was immediately punished for failing his job).

If the units were not ready, they would not have gone; the Commanders felt they were prepared to fight and so they deployed. There is a complex reporting system to insure readiness and military strength and, naturally, this is all internal and does not involve the President whether or not the 3rd ID is ready to go and fight.

Any shortages that exist are a shame and the problem of the individual unit.

 

[notto]

Sounds like jmverville is calling the Army captain a liar.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html

I called the Obama campaign this morning to chat about this story, and was put in touch with the Army captain in question.
He told me his story, which I found quite credible, though for obvious reasons he asked that I not mention his name or certain identifying information.
Short answer: He backs up Obama's story.

 

[notto]

Had he been truly concerned, as a U.S. Senator, he would have called in some Brass and asked questions.

The democrats have been doing that all along. Shortages and under prepared troops are nothing new in this war.

http://www.infozine.com/news/stories/op/storiesView/sid/27049/

Bringing this up (a years old story, btw) at a political event is despicable.

He has only been told the story recently. What is despicable about passing along a story told to him by a member of the armed services?

Is this practice something that you would condemn of any candidate?

 

[invisible trousers]

Awesome, accuse the captain of lying because what he's saying doesn't jive with your political beliefs. Stay classy, right wing.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Jmerville, did you read Rumsfeld's response? 'You go to war with the Army you have. Not the one you wish you had.' It is correct the brass is responsible for readiness but Obama's point was Bush's policy on Iraq was horrible because he didnt make sure the Troops were prepared. This is where the Hummer problem comes in. The Bush admin didnt plan for urban warfare thus armored hummers became a necessity against ieds. The brass can only be as prepared as policy permits them to be.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Voeg, he brought up a 'years old' event because that is what he was criticizing. Also, he was a State senator when this happened. Can State Senators call in brass? Me no think so. Criticize the guy for something legitimate. Not this straw reaching closed eyes throw sinclair mud at the walls and see what sticks stuff.

 

[notto]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RealDealNeverstop again.

 

[MachZer0]

When politicians talk about the military things always get ugly. It usually gets particularly ugly when we are forced to listen to doves talk about it... And get everything absolutely wrong.


The Pentagon speaks out:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon on Friday cast doubt on an account of military equipment shortages mentioned by Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama during a debate with rival Hillary Clinton.​

During the face-to-face encounter on Thursday evening, Obama said he had heard from an Army captain whose unit had served in Afghanistan without enough ammunition or vehicles.​

Obama said it was easier for the troops to capture weapons from Taliban militants than it was "to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief," President George W. Bush.​

Here's a question I think somebody should ask the Captain. If they didn't have enough ammo, how did they manage to overwhelm the Taliban to the point that they could capture their weapons?

 

[Conspiracy Theory]

 

[USMC4Life]

Do you guys not notice how I am calling the captain a liar? This captain was probably some pogue who doesn't know crap. The Army has way better funding then the Marines and we never had this problem of not enough vehicles or ammo. My tiny base of 150 people could of fought for days on our ammo and they gave that to just a base with 150. Also, complaining about Bush not getting the right armor for IEDs is stupid. I have never had any problems with this whole armor thing democrats are always seeming to talk about nor do I know of any person who has. You want to know why? Because I didn't wear it and most people didn't because it was hot and the things were heavy. Also in urban combat, you get shot with body armor you get knocked over and the men behind you can die, no body armor it cuts through you and you shoot they die and if you die at least you saved another person in your unit.

 

[Verv]

Sounds like jmverville is calling the Army captain a liar.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html

I called the Obama campaign this morning to chat about this story, and was put in touch with the Army captain in question.
He told me his story, which I found quite credible, though for obvious reasons he asked that I not mention his name or certain identifying information.
Short answer: He backs up Obama's story.

If he is not a liar, he was an incompetent officer or with many incompetent officers.

Or even one thing is also possible: he was in dire straits. Perhaps he was in a very isolated area and a lot of ammunition had already been expended. These situations are unavoidable in wartime.

However, I think the former is more likely.

Awesome, accuse the captain of lying because what he's saying doesn't jive with your political beliefs. Stay classy, right wing.

Well, the Pentagon is extremely skeptical of what he was saying. Doesn't that count for something? This isn't good old Mr. Verville calling him a liar; this si the Pentagon.

Jmerville, did you read Rumsfeld's response? 'You go to war with the Army you have. Not the one you wish you had.' It is correct the brass is responsible for readiness but Obama's point was Bush's policy on Iraq was horrible because he didnt make sure the Troops were prepared. This is where the Hummer problem comes in. The Bush admin didnt plan for urban warfare thus armored hummers became a necessity against ieds. The brass can only be as prepared as policy permits them to be.

That is rather true -- so if anybody failed, it was not Bush. It was the Generals who failed to prepare their troops for the fight. But I do not believe that -- we have gone to Iraq and fought for 5 years nearly and only lost roughly 4,000 soldiers. Compare that to the 7,000 who died in the first 30 minutes of the battle of Cold Harbor.

We've done a good job and I simply do not subscribe to the notion our military hasn't done well enough.

Here's a question I think somebody should ask the Captain. If they didn't have enough ammo, how did they manage to overwhelm the Taliban to the point that they could capture their weapons?

Great point.

Do you guys not notice how I am calling the captain a liar? This captain was probably some pogue who doesn't know crap. The Army has way better funding then the Marines and we never had this problem of not enough vehicles or ammo. My tiny base of 150 people could of fought for days on our ammo and they gave that to just a base with 150. Also, complaining about Bush not getting the right armor for IEDs is stupid. I have never had any problems with this whole armor thing democrats are always seeming to talk about nor do I know of any person who has. You want to know why? Because I didn't wear it and most people didn't because it was hot and the things were heavy. Also in urban combat, you get shot with body armor you get knocked over and the men behind you can die, no body armor it cuts through you and you shoot they die and if you die at least you saved another person in your unit.

Yeah, this is exactly right.

In my unit we sometimes have to spend an hour or two firing off extra ammunition when we go to the range because we simply have too much. I highly doubt any competent unit would go to Afghanistan with too little ammo when the standard always seems to be to have too much.

 

[MacCoyle]

I have never had any problems with this whole armor thing democrats are always seeming to talk about nor do I know of any person who has.

I hate how people think there are no Democrats in the military.

 

[MacCoyle]

That is rather true -- so if anybody failed, it was not Bush. It was the Generals who failed to prepare their troops for the fight. But I do not believe that -- we have gone to Iraq and fought for 5 years nearly and only lost roughly 4,000 soldiers. Compare that to the 7,000 who died in the first 30 minutes of the battle of Cold Harbor.

One American life in this war I feel is too much.

About Cold Harbor, that 7,000 figure encompasses all killed, wounded, and missing during the first 30 minutes. And anyway marching straight at well defended trenches shouldn't be compared to urban guerilla warfare.

 

[USMC4Life]

I hate how people think there are no Democrats in the military.

I didn't say that read it again. I will admit there is dims in the military, they are just the whiny pogues.

 

[MacCoyle]

I didn't say that read it again. I will admit there is dims in the military, they are just the whiny pogues.

When you talk to people about politics, does it ever end without one side being absolutely disgusted?