O.B.N.C.

[FreeGrace2]

OBNC equals OSAS.

So, what does it stand for? Once Belief, No Condemnation. iow, once a person believes in Christ for salvation, they cannot be condemned.

Does the Bible teach this? Of course it does.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

So, what does "have not believed" mean exactly? Real simple. It means "have NEVER believed".

Some have argued that "have not believed" does NOT mean "have never believed". So, I will demonstrate why it does mean that exactly.

If you (the reader of this post) have NEVER murdered anyone, it means you "have not murdered" anyone. See how that works?

However, if you (reader) EVER DID murder anyone, it means that you "have murdered" anyone.

So, the terms "have not" and "never" are synonymous.

Therefore, once a person HAS BELIEVED in Christ for salvation, it means you cannot say that they "have not believed".

Therefore, Chuck Templeton and Simon the sorcerer are both in heaven right now.

Why? Both had believed in Christ for salvation. Therefore, neither one can be condemned.

So says the Bible.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Are you saying that even apparent apostasy does nothing to negate salvation?

 

[d taylor]

OBNC equals OSAS.

So, what does it stand for? Once Belief, No Condemnation. iow, once a person believes in Christ for salvation, they cannot be condemned.

Does the Bible teach this? Of course it does.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

So, what does "have not believed" mean exactly? Real simple. It means "have NEVER believed".

Some have argued that "have not believed" does NOT mean "have never believed". So, I will demonstrate why it does mean that exactly.

If you (the reader of this post) have NEVER murdered anyone, it means you "have not murdered" anyone. See how that works?

However, if you (reader) EVER DID murder anyone, it means that you "have murdered" anyone.

So, the terms "have not" and "never" are synonymous.

Therefore, once a person HAS BELIEVED in Christ for salvation, it means you cannot say that they "have not believed".

Therefore, Chuck Templeton and Simon the sorcerer are both in heaven right now.

Why? Both had believed in Christ for salvation. Therefore, neither one can be condemned.

So says the Bible.

I gave you an agree, but i have a ? about chuck templeton (actually he is listed as charles in my google search).

I had never heard of him so i looked him up. My only question is (one that i do not have about Simon) is did he actually trust/believe in The Messiah.

This day and age so many identifying as believers, are really trusting in so much: baptism, a conservation experience, saying a prayer, repenting of sins, obedience, confessing Christ, etc...

Are these types of people or have these types of people ever actually trusted in the Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. That is the question i have about a person outside of the Bibles witness and in our current time/age. This Chuck Templeton may very well have trusted in the Messiah for Eternal Life, if so that is correct he is in heaven now. But i never actually knew the person personally and like Billy Graham, i can not say where he is now.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Are you saying that even apparent apostasy does nothing to negate salvation?

What does John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say to you?

As Paul once said, "I'm not saying anything beyond what the Scriptures say."

Acts 26:22 - But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses (Scriptures) said would happen —

We should strive to accept what the verses say, and not try to second guess them.

If apostasy did negate salvation, why isn't there a verse that says so? That's the better question.

 

[anna ~ grace]

What does John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say to you?

As Paul once said, "I'm not saying anything beyond what the Scriptures say."

Acts 26:22 - But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses (Scriptures) said would happen —

We should strive to accept what the verses say, and not try to second guess them.

If apostasy did negate salvation, why isn't there a verse that says so? That's the better question.

Ok, so, in your opinion, simple yes or no, does apparent apostasy negate salvation?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I gave you an agree, but i have a ? about chuck templeton (actually he is listed as charles in my google search).

Thanks for the "agree".

I had never heard of him so i looked him up. My only question is (one that i do not have about Simon) is did he actually trust/believe in The Messiah.

He was the one who mentored a young Billy Graham when Billy began his evanelistic ministry. In fact, they roomed together while travelling through Europe holding crusades in 1947. The reports indicate that he led thousands to salvation through faith in Christ.

I find it hard to believe that Charles would have been an evangelist all the while not believing what he preached to thousands. Why would anyone who doesn't believe the gospel do that?

This day and age so many identifying as believers, are really trusting in so much: baptism, a conservation experience, saying a prayer, repenting of sins, obedience, confessing Christ, etc...

Again, he was a successful evangelist, with a long list of converts by his efforts.

Are these types of people or have these types of people ever actually trusted in the Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life. That is the question i have about a person outside of the Bibles witness and in our current time/age. This Chuck Templeton may very well have trusted in the Messiah for Eternal Life, if so that is correct he is in heaven now. But i never actually knew the person personally and like Billy Graham, i can not say where he is now.

The reason Charles ceased to believe in God was because of a teaching that he couldn't reconcile between what he was taught about creation and science. He was taught that the earth is 6 days older than Adam, which is the most common view of Gen 1 among evangelicals. He understood from science (not theory) that the earth is way older than Adam. So he concluded that the Bible couldn't be true and therefore, there is no God.

How sad. The whole problem could have been avoided if only someone who knew what Gen 1:2 really says had gotten to him so he would have realized that the common teaching about Gen 1 was wrong, not the Bible was wrong.

The proper rendering of 1:2 is this:

But, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

The underlined words have been wrongly translated from early times. v.2 actually indicates that there is an indeterminate time gap between God's original creation and when God RESTORED the planet, beginning in v.2.

This is easily supported from the NT in Hebrew 11:3 - By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

The word "formed" is 'katartizo' in the Greek. It means "to repair, mend, adjust to fit, restore" and is actually translated as "restore" in Gal 6:1 and 1 Peter 5:10.

In Matt 4:21 and Mark 1:19 it says the disciples were "mending their nets". Yep. The Greek word there is 'katartizo'.

So the NT says the earth was restored.

Now, what occurred in that time gap is NOT explained in Scripture, so any claim is just a theory. We do not know.

There will probably be more replies to the gap than the point of this thread. But, oh well.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok, so, in your opinion, simple yes or no, does apparent apostasy negate salvation?

The OP is clear and straightforward.

You must make up your own mind about how John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 would answer your question.

It isn't my prerogative to tell you what I think. It is my prerogative to tell you what the Bible says. And John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 are clear enough for you to make up your own mind.

So, given what these 2 verses say, what do you think is the answer to your question?

 

[d taylor]

Thanks for the "agree".


He was the one who mentored a young Billy Graham when Billy began his evanelistic ministry. In fact, they roomed together while travelling through Europe holding crusades in 1947. The reports indicate that he led thousands to salvation through faith in Christ.

I find it hard to believe that Charles would have been an evangelist all the while not believing what he preached to thousands. Why would anyone who doesn't believe the gospel do that?


Again, he was a successful evangelist, with a long list of converts by his efforts.


The reason Charles ceased to believe in God was because of a teaching that he couldn't reconcile between what he was taught about creation and science. He was taught that the earth is 6 days older than Adam, which is the most common view of Gen 1 among evangelicals. He understood from science (not theory) that the earth is way older than Adam. So he concluded that the Bible couldn't be true and therefore, there is no God.

How sad. The whole problem could have been avoided if only someone who knew what Gen 1:2 really says had gotten to him so he would have realized that the common teaching about Gen 1 was wrong, not the Bible was wrong.

The proper rendering of 1:2 is this:

But, the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

The underlined words have been wrongly translated from early times. v.2 actually indicates that there is an indeterminate time gap between God's original creation and when God RESTORED the planet, beginning in v.2.

This is easily supported from the NT in Hebrew 11:3 - By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

The word "formed" is 'katartizo' in the Greek. It means "to repair, mend, adjust to fit, restore" and is actually translated as "restore" in Gal 6:1 and 1 Peter 5:10.

In Matt 4:21 and Mark 1:19 it says the disciples were "mending their nets". Yep. The Greek word there is 'katartizo'.

So the NT says the earth was restored.

Now, what occurred in that time gap is NOT explained in Scripture, so any claim is just a theory. We do not know.

There will probably be more replies to the gap than the point of this thread. But, oh well.

Ok a connection to Billy Graham, he was a confusing one also.

“I won’t be in heaven because I’ve preached to crowds or because I’ve tried to live a good life. I’ll be in heaven for one reason: Many years ago I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ…”

“Do you know you will go to heaven when you die? You can, by committing your life to Christ today” (emphasis added).

Quotes above from the free grace article below.​

Billy Graham’s Final Contradiction – Grace Evangelical Society

And i agree about Genesis 1:1 and a time space between Genesis 1:2, but i depart from the planet part. And will go with the earth of the Bible not science. But will not derail the topic here so no more will i post about creation here.

 

[Freth]

Further context is given in John 3.

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Further context is found in 2 Thessalonians 2:12.

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

These verses point directly to action. What are evil deeds? Sin. What is unrighteousness? Wickedness. Sin. If you profess to believe, but have pleasure in wickedness, in sin, then you are not saved, because you are taking the Lord's name in vain—professing belief in Him, but not following His commands. Two or more commandments broken right there.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
​

Just so it's clear:

Ephesians 2:1-10

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.​

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok a connection to Billy Graham, he was a confusing one also.

“I won’t be in heaven because I’ve preached to crowds or because I’ve tried to live a good life. I’ll be in heaven for one reason: Many years ago I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ…”

“Do you know you will go to heaven when you die? You can, by committing your life to Christ today” (emphasis added).

Quotes above from the free grace article below.​

Billy Graham’s Final Contradiction – Grace Evangelical Society

And i agree about Genesis 1:1 and a time space between Genesis 1:2, but i depart from the planet part. And will go with the earth of the Bible not science. But will not derail the topic here so no more will i post about creation here.

You confused by with your "I depart from the planet part". Gen 1:1,2 is all about the planet.

Don't worry about derailing. There is an interesting history about the gap. In 1796 a geologist named Charles Lyell developed the age of the earth based on "geologial columns", or something like that. Chuck Darwin was born in 1809. So Lyell's work was not based in any way on Darwin's whacky ideas.

Then, in 1814, a scottish preacher Dr Thomas Chalmers, came up with a "gap theory"
in an attempt to harmonize the geologic data of the day with Scripture.

Darwin published his nutty ideas in 1859, 50 years AFTER Chalmers wrote about a gap theory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Further context is given in John 3.

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.​

Further context is found in 2 Thessalonians 2:12.

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

These verses point directly to action. What are evil deeds? Sin. What is unrighteousness? Wickedness. Sin. If you profess to believe, but have pleasure in wickedness, in sin, then you are not saved, because you are taking the Lord's name in vain—professing belief in Him, but not following His commands. Two or more commandments broken right there.

So, it seems you are saying that salvation can be lost because of sin. Just how many sins did Christ die for? The Bible says ALL sins.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is a crowd at the Great White Throne judgment (Rev 20:11-15) who are basing their entrance into the kingdom on their WORKS. They were religious legalists who thought that salvation was based on works. Their own works. Just look at their boasts.

However, salvation is based on believing in the WORK of Jesus Christ on the cross.

What did Jesus say to this crowd? "I NEVER knew you". Could He say that to anyone who had ever believed in Him? Of course not.

This proves that this crowd NEVER believed. And then won't get into the kingdom.

From your post, it appears that you don't actually believe either John 3:18 or 2 Thess 2:12. Why is that?

 

[d taylor]

You confused by with your "I depart from the planet part". Gen 1:1,2 is all about the planet.

Don't worry about derailing. There is an interesting history about the gap. In 1796 a geologist named Charles Lyell developed the age of the earth based on "geologial columns", or something like that. Chuck Darwin was born in 1809. So Lyell's work was not based in any way on Darwin's whacky ideas.

Then, in 1814, a scottish preacher Dr Thomas Chalmers, came up with a "gap theory"
in an attempt to harmonize the geologic data of the day with Scripture.

Darwin published his nutty ideas in 1859, 50 years AFTER Chalmers wrote about a gap theory.

Well if you will examine Genesis 1 (and really the rest of the Bible) carefully and literary the creation in Genesis is not a planet (a water covered sphere floating out in space) earth.

That idea has been injected into the reading of The Bible's creation descriptions, by science (i believed inspired by satan, similar to false gospels)

But i said do not want to derail your topic, salvation issues are more important that creation issues.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well if you will examine Genesis 1 (and really the rest of the Bible) carefully and literary the creation in Genesis is not a planet (a water covered sphere floating out in space) earth.

Hm.

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 - Now (But) the earth was (became) formless and empty (an uninhabitable wasteland), darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Does your Bible have a different word than 'the earth'?

That idea has been injected into the reading of The Bible's creation descriptions, by science (i believed inspired by satan, similar to false gospels)

But i said do not want to derail your topic, salvation issues are more important that creation issues.

I enjoy discussing all topics of the Bible. 2 Tim 3:16

 

[Freth]

So, it seems you are saying that salvation can be lost because of sin. Just how many sins did Christ die for? The Bible says ALL sins.

And yet...

• James said that faith without works is dead. James 2:17-20
• Jesus said that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. John 14:15
• Paul said that we yield ourselves as servants to obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. (There is no middle ground.) Romans 6:16
• Paul said that the gospel is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith (commandment keeping). Romans 16:25-26
  
• John said that the saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Jesus, speaking in Revelation 22:11-13:

(John) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

(Jesus) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
​

Jesus is speaking to Christians and non-Christians alike, to the righteous and unrighteous, to every man according to his work shall be.

Jesus ties love to obedience. Love is not selfish nor self-serving. We obey because we love Him, not to be saved.

Grace is the gift of God. To give, or to take away. It is completely separate from anything we can do.

Our relationship with our Creator shows our heart condition. If we believe, we most surely want to do His will, out of love or Him.

 

[d taylor]

Hm.

Gen 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2 - Now (But) the earth was (became) formless and empty (an uninhabitable wasteland), darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Does your Bible have a different word than 'the earth'?


I enjoy discussing all topics of the Bible. 2 Tim 3:16

Earth simply means land, that also does not include water but just land.

Notice that the waters that covered the earth in Genesis 1:1 verse 1:2, in Genesis 1:6 were separated by what God called a raqia (firmament, expanse, dome depends on the Bible version you have)

Now notice that the earth (land) did not appear until the waters were separated (1:6) and God call this area separating the waters heaven (sky, what we see every day). Then moving down to verses 1:14,15,16 and 17 it is seen that God creates lights (sun, moon and stars) and places these lights where.

In the raqia (firmament, expanse, dome) that is the area that God named heaven (sky) that is the area separating water from waters (verse 1:6).

Now take a look at verse 1:20 where it states the birds fly across the face of the raqia (heaven, sky) the same place where God placed the sun, moon and stars. And they are placed there to given light on the earth verse 1:15,17

Take a look at Joshua 10:12-15 Joshua commands the sun and moon to stop moving, why because that is what the sun and moon (and stars) do move over the earth to give light.

Look at Hezekiah and God's promise to Hezekiah, that God will heal him and the sign God gives to Hezekiah to show that he will be healed. Is that the sun shadow will return 10 degrees on the sun dial and the Bible states
Behold, I will bring the shadow on the sundial, which has gone down with the sun on the sundial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward.” So the sun returned ten degrees on the dial by which it had gone down.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And yet...

• James said that faith without works is dead. James 2:17-20
• Jesus said that if we love Him we will keep His commandments. John 14:15
• Paul said that we yield ourselves as servants to obey, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. (There is no middle ground.) Romans 6:16
• Paul said that the gospel is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith (commandment keeping). Romans 16:25-26
  
• John said that the saints keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Is this an attempt to pit Scripture against Scripture?

The bottom line is whether you accept John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 as written.

If you do, your points melt away.

James 2:17-20 isn't about saving faith. It's about lifestyle faith. v.18 is James' summary of his point. In order to demonstrate your faith to others, you must have deeds.

John 14:15 isnt' about salvation. It's about obedience of believers.

Rom 6:16 is a choice every believer faces. This is about obedience.

Rom 16;25,26 doesn't say anything about how to be saved.

Rev 14:12 is a policy statement. There are obvious examples in Scripture of believers who lost faith. Including Jesus' own disciples.

Yet, none of the examples includes anything about losing salvation.

Jesus, speaking in Revelation 22:11-13:

(John) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

(Jesus) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
​

Jesus is speaking to Christians and non-Christians alike, to the righteous and unrighteous, to every man according to his work shall be.

No, Jesus was addressing believers only. v.12 is a parallel to 2 Cor 5:10, which is the BEMA or Judgment Seat of Christ. Only believers attend that one.

Jesus ties love to obedience. Love is not selfish nor self-serving. We obey because we love Him, not to be saved.

Well, you have it backward. Obedience comes from love. Not the other way around.

Grace is the gift of God. To give, or to take away. It is completely separate from anything we can do.

What is your point here?

Our relationship with our Creator shows our heart condition. If we believe, we most surely want to do His will, out of love or Him.

If that were true, there would be no need of any commandments. Yet, the Bible is filled with commandments.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Earth simply means land, that also does not include water but just land.

OK, and the planet is land. A solid mass.

Notice that the waters that covered the earth in Genesis 1:1 verse 1:2, in Genesis 1:6 were separated by what God called a raqia (firmament, expanse, dome depends on the Bible version you have)

Now notice that the earth (land) did not appear until the waters were separated (1:6) and God call this area separating the waters heaven (sky, what we see every day). Then moving down to verses 1:14,15,16 and 17 it is seen that God creates lights (sun, moon and stars) and places these lights where.[/QUOTE]
Not to cop-out, but I'm not all that interested in the details of how God restored the planet.

What I know is that He did. Confirmed by Heb 11:3.

 

[Doug Brents]

The bottom line is whether you accept John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 as written.

You have a bad habit of doing this. You take a verse that says what you want to believe and then challenge any other verse that says anything else.

If another passage says something counter to what you say your pet verse means, then your interpretation is not right.

Consider, if you will, the parable of the talents in Matt 25:14-30. This is a picture of the Kingdom of God. These servants are close, trusted servants. They are not outsiders. They are “in” the Kingdom (saved).

But when the third servant proves his unfaithfulness, he is cast out of the household “… into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This is clear language meaning Hell.

It is very clear that Jesus is saying that you can be “in Christ” but still be cast out of the Kingdom into Hell if you fail to bear fruit and remain faithful to Christ; if you fail to continue to “walk in the Light”.

 

[d taylor]

You have a bad habit of doing this. You take a verse that says what you want to believe and then challenge any other verse that says anything else.

If another passage says something counter to what you say your pet verse means, then your interpretation is not right.

Consider, if you will, the parable of the talents in Matt 25:14-30. This is a picture of the Kingdom of God. These servants are close, trusted servants. They are not outsiders. They are “in” the Kingdom (saved).

But when the third servant proves his unfaithfulness, he is cast out of the household “… into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This is clear language meaning Hell.

It is very clear that Jesus is saying that you can be “in Christ” but still be cast out of the Kingdom into Hell if you fail to bear fruit and remain faithful to Christ; if you fail to continue to “walk in the Light”.

The outer darkness is not a clear example of hell.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
The bottom line is whether you accept John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 as written.

You have a bad habit of doing this.

Yeah, I know. Quoting Scripture that refutes unbiblical claims does kind get to some people.

You take a verse that says what you want to believe and then challenge any other verse that says anything else.

Oh? So the 2 verses DON'T say what I think they say?

Do tell. Please inform me as to what they DO say then.

If another passage says something counter to what you say your pet verse means, then your interpretation is not right.

Then by all means please share this other passage.

Consider, if you will, the parable of the talents in Matt 25:14-30. This is a picture of the Kingdom of God. These servants are close, trusted servants. They are not outsiders. They are “in” the Kingdom (saved).

Oh, excuse me sir, but trying to defend a particular teaching or doctrine from a parable doesn't count. Jesus didn't give parables to teach people. He had to explain them to His own disciples who didn't understand them. So you think you're much smarter than His personally trained disciples? Interesting.

It is very clear that Jesus is saying that you can be “in Christ” but still be cast out of the Kingdom into Hell if you fail to bear fruit and remain faithful to Christ; if you fail to continue to “walk in the Light”.

No, what is real clear is that you don't know what you are talking about.

I gave 2 very clearly worded verses about who WILL BE condemned. Both of them said those who "HAVE NOT BELIEVED".

And you come up with a parable to try to refute these 2 verses.

Fail.

Parables weren't given to be clear, but to keep uinbelievers who reject the truth to undersstand the truth.

But John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 were MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

The language cannot be ignored or twisted.

But go ahead and stay with your parables.