O.B.N.C.

[FreeGrace2]

NO!! I explained how, but you either didn't read or didnt like what you read, IDK, and so in post #610 I responded that apparently I did not know "so please go for it since it's so important for all of us."

So, IF you HAD explained HOW, then why did you admit that you did NOT know???

That seems more than confused.

And I explained that what you did respond with wasn't clear or specific. iow, no one would be able to be filled with the Spirit from what you posted.

Can you be more clear and this time, actually specific about it?

I told you that submitting or yielding to the Spirit IS being filled with the Spirit.

But HOW HOW HOW does one actually accomplish it?

Do you know?

 

[fhansen]

So how can you suggest there is no "real change"? Don't you believe these things occur?

As I've been insisting, righteousness is not merely imputed to man; it's imparted to him. That's why one begins to behave-or certainly should-more righteously. And we are intended to grow in that righteouness, in that love, as we 'grow also in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ' (2 Pet 3:18). And the verse before that warns that we can lose our secure status:
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position."

You seem to forget about Simon the sorcerer. He believed and was baptized. Yet, Peter told him his "heart wasn't right". And that can and is true for a whole lot of saved people.

Saved but self centered.

Yes, not a real secure position.

And your training about baptism is woefully lacking. You cannot discern between the 2 baptisms that John the baptizer clearly noted in Mark 1:8. And that there are REAL and RITUAL baptisms.

And you can't explain the baptism into Moses and into the sea of 1 Cor 10:1-5.

Clearly the Israelites went through the Red Sea on dry ground, yet Paul describes the event as being baptised into the sea. That was a REAL and DRY baptism, of which you know nothing.

You and I never discussed baptism.

 

[fhansen]

So, IF you HAD explained HOW, then why did you admit that you did NOT know???

You didn't accept my answer, so I asked for yours even though mine was the answer as far as I'm concerned. Apparently whatever answer you have I do not have, so get on with it. I've asked three times now for your position. If you've got something, give it up! If you don't then keep stalling I guess.

Either way this is probably the least rational discussion-really- I've had on CF so I'll not respond more. I don't have that kind of time to waste. And I apologize for any "snippy" attitude I may have expressed. I'll post what I promised, when I get to it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

As I've been insisting, righteousness is not merely imputed to man; it's imparted to him.

But you haven't shown that from the Bible.

That's why one begins to behave-or certainly should-more righteously.

You have touched on the key: "should". That's why there are many commands for righteous behavior.

And we are intended to grow in that righteouness, in that love, as we 'grow also in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ' (2 Pet 3:18).

Yes, "intended". Now, the only way to grow in that righteousness is by being filled with the Spirit.

So again, can you explain HOW to be filled with the Spirit?

And the verse before that warns that we can lose our secure status:
"Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position."

Yes, not a real secure position.

If you believe the verse actually means what you are suggesting, then Jesus was lying in John 10:28. He said recipients of eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

English Standard Version
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.

King James Bible
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

New American Standard Bible
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unscrupulous people and lose your own firm commitment,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stability.

American Standard Version
Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
You therefore, beloved, as you have known beforehand, guard your souls, lest you go after the deception of those who are without The Law and you fall from your own stability.

Weymouth New Testament
You, therefore, dear friends, having been warned beforehand, must continually be on your guard so as not to be led astray by the false teaching of immoral men nor fall from your own stedfastness.

World English Bible
You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness.

Young's Literal Translation
Ye, then, beloved, knowing before, take heed, lest, together with the error of the impious being led away, ye may fall from your own stedfastness,

None of these translations indicate any potential of loss of salvation.

Here is the Greek word and meaning:

stérigmos: a setting firmly, steadfastness
Original Word: στηριγμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stérigmos
Phonetic Spelling: (stay-rig-mos')
Definition: a setting firmly, steadfastness
Usage: firmness, steadfastness.

The point is that those who are carried away by the error of the wicked will LOSE THEIR OWN STABILITY, FIRMNESS, STEADFASTNESS.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You didn't accept my answer, so I asked for yours even though mine was the answer as far as I'm concerned.

The problem with your answer is that it didn't address the HOW. Go back and review it.

Apparently whatever answer you have I do not have, so get on with it. I've asked three times now for your position. If you've got something, give it up! If you don't then keep stalling I guess.

OK. First, sin breaks fellowship with the Lord; 1 John 1:1-9. The solution is confession of sin, for forgiveness and cleansing. This is what restored fellowship.

When a believer is out of fellowship (too many believers have no idea what that even means) their prayers are NOT heard.

Psa 66:18 -
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

When a believer is out of fellowship they are guilty of grieving (Eph 4:30) and/or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit.

Kinda like unplugging the cord from the wall and having no power for your devices.

So, first is to confess your sins.

Second, we know from Jesus' teaching His disciples how to pray, He said this:

Luke 11-
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Now, believers are commanded to "be filled with the Holy Spirit" in Eph 5:18. So we know that this is God's will for every believer.

1 John 5-
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. Keep in mind Isa 66:18.
15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

So, before we should ask for the filling of the Spirit, we MUST be on "praying ground", meaning we must confess our sins for forgiveness and cleansing.

Then, and only then, we are on praying grounds to ASK for the filling of the Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace2]

NO!! I explained how, but you either didn't read or didnt like what you read, IDK, and so in post #610 I responded that apparently I did not know "so please go for it since it's so important for all of us."

Your answer had no mention of the Holy Spirit.

The key to living the Christian life is to be filled with the Spirit.