Number One Flaw in Cessationism

[CharismaticLady]

Okay.....

Trying to grab a crowd of people to point and laugh all while belittling those you discuss with is an all time low for you. I only hope one who does this kind of action isn't so miserable of a person in life that they have to demean others for satisfaction.

Look, I am not an English professor. I cannot school you in understanding grammar, or even help you in your reading comprehension. Something one might consider when they cannot comprehend the subject matter at hand. Especially when reading the bible since it has been agreed upon as material at the 6th grade reading level.

You have the nerve to tell me I do not understand, yet you have repeatedly avoided my main point (post #3 I believe). You fail to comprehend simple sentences and meaning of words. You deflect every sub point I have made. You have not once provided any evidence. And no, questioning what I think of a verse is not evidence.

You have nothing.

So grab your little friends, point and laugh, make your snide remarks, God knows I tried. I'm done spinning my wheels here.

I do sincerely bid you a great day, an awesome weekend, and a wonderful christmas season.

Sorry, but you did twist the daylights out of the meaning of Acts 2. Why? You should be seeing Acts 2 in the LIGHT of the RULE: 1 Corinthians 14:2, instead of taking Acts 2 and twisting 1 Corinthians 14:2 to fit. You've got your method of exegesis backwards. First look at the rule, then see how the story lines up with the rule. (Exegesis 101) The only way for those devout Jews in Acts 2 to understand all of them praising God in their own individual language is by the gift of interpretation of tongues. Remember, these were DEVOUT Jews and were sovereignly allowed to understand through the sign.

Both the speaking and the hearing were supernatural. There is no natural understanding to tongues.

 

[NBB]

Whether you believe certain gifts have ceased or not, one thing is certain - what people call 'gifts' today do not match the biblical descriptions of those gifts. Today's 'tongues' do not match the tongues seen in scripture. Today's 'healings' do not match the gift of healing seen in scripture. Today's 'prophecies' do not match prophecy seen in scripture. They are poor counterfeits.

I don't know about gifts of healing, my mother speaks in tongues but i don't, but about prophecy, Paul says 'what if an unbeliever enters and all are prophecying, their hidden intent of their heart will be visilble and he will recognize God' or something like that, and this, this i have experienced it, some pastors have the gift to see like 'through you soul and heart' with accurate descriptions of past events in your life and accurate telling of your secret experiences nobody knows and seeing your spiritual problems etc, i have lived this and i cannot deny it. Some would say they are 'psychics', but this is very stupid thing to say.
If you were in my shoes when this things happened you would have believed too.

 

[Albion]

If you were in my pants when this things happened you would have believed too.

Hmmm. In my country, the expression usually is "if you were in my shoes...."

To say "in my pants" generally is taken to mean something else.

 

[NBB]

Hmmm. In my country, the expression usually is "if you were in my shoes...."

To say "in my pants" generally is taken to mean something else.

Sorry about that, i will correct it.

 

[Saint Steven]

No cessationist, you should understand, places a specific date upon the cessationism, just that it did occur.

What a Cessationist names as the cause infers a date. Typically the death of the Apostles.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The post you are replying about already proved that stance wrong. Please read the post again.

In the word of God from Paul I quoted, it clearly says that tongues, when no one else is around edifies the one speaking or praying.

 

[Albion]

What a Cessationist names as the cause infers a date. Typically the death of the Apostles.

No, that's not correct. Some probably do, but more believe that it gradually became less and less common as the purpose for which the gifts were given was accomplished, until there was cessation for all intents and purposes. This does not mean that an individual here or there couldn't have received the gift but that it was no longer a significant part of church life.

 

[Albion]

duplicate

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

In the word of God from Paul I quoted, it clearly says that tongues, when no one else is around edifies the one speaking or praying.

Yet the gifts are to edify others, not self. I have no use for a gift that doesn't edify others.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The false teachings in the church and the loss of the Holy Spirit practices in favour of a focus on the sacraments, the eucharist, confession, receiving the Holy Spirit at baptism and confirmation, with rules on diet, and strict control on what could be read... And this followed the persecution to death of saints under the emperors and coming of Islam by force. This led to the loss of genuine conversions and the true Holy Spirit infillings.

But St Francis in the 12th century and St Anthony produced tongues in known languages and Francis was sent to preach to the Pope, in riches, to repair a crumbling church. I am not sure about how well he did.

500 years ago Martin Luther broke free from the control. This led to a revival of doing God's will, that of missions and numerous conversions. Looking at John Wesley and the great awakenings. With the church coming to life again, and it did not need a period of slumbering, came the gifts of the Spirit, and manifestations of the Spirit. Delayed, it should never have slumbered or seemed to cease. The Holy Spirit enables conversions that mind to mind preaching cannot do.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Yet the gifts are to edify others, not self. I have no use for a gift that doesn't edify others.

hope this helps !!!

1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. ESV

We need to be justified before we can help others, take the logs out of our own eyes, as Jesus said.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

These verses from 1 Corinthians shows that Paul is referring to a practice that is not identical to that of Acts ch 2.
1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Co 14:3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.
1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.
1Co 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. ESV

We need to be justified before we can help others, take the logs out of our own eyes, as Jesus said.

I don’t need to edify myself, I serve others like Jesus did. I have no use for tongues , never have never will.

Every single tongue talker I’ve met over the past 40 years think they are superior spiritually to those who don’t have the “ gift “

My best friends family all spoke in tongues and his brother and sister went to ORU in the 80’s .

hope this helps !!!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I don’t need to edify myself, I serve others like Jesus did. I have no use for tongues , never have never will.

Every single tongue talker I’ve met over the past 40 years think they are superior spiritually to those who don’t have the “ gift “

My best friends family all spoke in tongues and his brother and sister went to ORU in the 80’s .

hope this helps !!!

How did Jesus serve others? No prayer for Himself?

Best not to let people with gifts deter you from the good of them because they faulter. The Spirit is always holy and good.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Bonnie is another false teaching .79,000,000 million saved, right. Of these frauds make such claims. No one sees the results anywhere.

Would Satan want millions of conversions to Christ? You can see footage of the crusades, and following churches, the Pentecostals and Anglican... African churches swelling, and you can read and see Voice of the Martyrs church news. Or "International Christian Concern", ICC.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The post you are replying about already proved that stance wrong. Please read the post again.

Post number?

 

[CharismaticLady]

In the word of God from Paul I quoted, it clearly says that tongues, when no one else is around edifies the one speaking or praying.

Hi G,

Maybe you can get through to him.

You may already know this, but I just wanted you to know that Mark 16 sign of tongues are for all believers individually, for our individual prayer and praise, and you are right, we are edified. 1 Corinthians 12 gift of diverse kinds of tongues where only 2 or 3 may give a message FROM God in tongues that require interpretation are for the profit of all. Not all believers are given this gift, and it and interpretation are like offices in the Church. That is why 1 Cor. 12:30 asks do all speak in tongues, do all interpret? No, it is not the sign of tongues, but the gift of tongues, and the difference is the direction. The latter gift is FROM God, whereas the sign of tongues of Mark 16 is TO God, not to man, thus does not need to be interpreted. Though if someone has the gift of interpretation they may be able to interpret either the sign or the gift, but is only absolutely required for the gift of diverse kinds of tongues. Many Pentecostals teach that not all can speak in tongues, but they can if they have been born again. Unfortunately, many in the Church at large have never experienced a change of nature and have no manifestations of the Spirit, because He is not indwelling them. I know because the first 30 years of going to church, it appears I wasn't even saved! But, praise God, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1977 and He has been flowing through me ever since.

 

[swordsman1]

I don't know about gifts of healing, my mother speaks in tongues but i don't, but about prophecy, Paul says 'what if an unbeliever enters and all are prophecying, their hidden intent of their heart will be visilble and he will recognize God' or something like that, and this, this i have experienced it, some pastors have the gift to see like 'through you soul and heart' with accurate descriptions of past events in your life and accurate telling of your secret experiences nobody knows and seeing your spiritual problems etc, i have lived this and i cannot deny it. Some would say they are 'psychics', but this is very stupid thing to say.
If you were in my shoes when this things happened you would have believed too.

The prophets in that passage were not using extra sensory perception to get the information about the unbeliever. Like all prophets, they would have heard a message from God and passed the message on.

 

[swordsman1]

Yet the gifts are to edify others, not self. I have no use for a gift that doesn't edify others.

Correct. The purpose of spiritual gifts is to benefit others, not self.

1 Cor 12:7 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good."

1 Peter 4:10 "As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, "​

 

[swordsman1]

In the word of God from Paul I quoted, it clearly says that tongues, when no one else is around edifies the one speaking or praying.

That was a rebuke, not an endorsement! The Corinthians tongues speaker was only edifying himself when he should have been edifying the church. The 'but' in that verse indicates a deficiency. His tongues should be been translated so that the church would be edified (1 Cor 14:5).