Number One Flaw in Cessationism

[Saint Steven]

Here is a literal translation of the text.

And there are diversities of gifts, and the same Spirit;
5 and there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord;
6 and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God -- who is working the all in all.
7 And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit;
8 for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
9 and to another faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healings in the same Spirit;
10 and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues:
11 and all these doth work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intendeth.
(1 Cor. 12:4-11 YLT)

The 'He' of verse 11 is the 'God who is working all in all' of verse 6

Have you discovered your gift yet? Or too busy bashing them to find it?

 

[CharismaticLady]

No one spoke in the tongues of angels. Are you ready to discuss 1 Cor 13:1-3?

As I said, God chooses the language from ALL the languages He has made, and seeing as I can't understand it, and neither can you, what does it matter?

 

[swordsman1]

As I said, God chooses the language from ALL the languages He has made, and seeing as I can't understand it, and neither can you, what does it matter?

Well yes it does matter if what you claim to be practicing is not the true gift of tongues, but rather a counterfeit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@ICONO'CLAST and @swordsman1

Re: Kenneth Hagin (HOT!)

Revelation 3:15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

 

[swordsman1]

@ICONO'CLAST and @swordsman1

Re: Kenneth Hagin (HOT!)

Revelation 3:15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

With his 'drunk in the Spirit' antics, Hagin exhibited the complete opposite qualities of a genuine Christian.....

1 Corinthians 15:34 Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning

1 Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind

Galatians 5:21 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Titus 2:2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.​

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

One of my pet peeves about the ungifted, is them trying to tell those who operate in the gifts how it should be done. As if their inexperience and ignorance makes them experts. - lol

Modern Day False Teachers | Monergism

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well yes it does matter if what you claim to be practicing is not the true gift of tongues, but rather a counterfeit.

So, if I make a fool out of myself to honor God, He sees my heart. However, that is not my only gift. And the others are true, so I see no reason for the tongues I have to not be true as well.

But I only have the individual prayer and praise language of Mark 16. I do not have the gift of diverse kinds of tongues and the gift of interpretation of tongues in 1 Corinthians 12. But they are the only ones I haven't been given. Those go with that office in the Church. I hold a different office and don't need them, at least, I've never been given them. Also, God has never done a miracle through me, but God told me of a miracle He was going to do for me, and on what day. Fifteen months later on that very day, it happened. It was on par with Jesus turning water into wine, only better.

 

[Saint Steven]

Again, we don't know what all was going on.

There are two accounts. One in Acts 10 and one in Acts 11.
How can you say "... we don't know what all was going on." ?

You seem to be playing on both sides of that fence. If we say something, you want biblical proof. If we question you, you claim there is no way to know for sure.

 

[CharismaticLady]

With his 'drunk in the Spirit' antics, Hagin exhibited the complete opposite qualities of a genuine Christian.....

Corinthians 15:34 Become sober-minded as you ought, and stop sinning

1 Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind

Galatians 5:21 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Titus 2:2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.​

I wasn't there so don't know the context of what they were doing.

 

[Saint Steven]

@CharismaticLady
You must feel like you threw an apple at the hornet's next with this topic. So much venom. Oh well, by their works...

 

[Acts2:38]

One was speaking German.
One was speaking French
One was speaking Japanese.

Three devout Jews were listening but came from different countries.

The Chinaman heard THEM speaking Chinese.
The American heard THEM speaking English.
The Mexican heard THEM speaking Spanish.

Understand? I don't know how to make it any clearer. I thought the highlighting would work, but, oh well.

The only person not getting it is you. I see other posters trying to get you to see the same thing I am to no avail.

Look,
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Then look,
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Lastly it names the nations,
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

And even says ONE MORE TIME "We do hear them speak in OUR tongues (aka language of those countries)

Not only did the disciples speak supernaturally, the devout Jews heard them supernaturally.

No, not correct.

The disciples, yes, they had the gift of tongues.

The "devout Jews" NO. They had no gift bestowed upon them. I challenge you to prove it as well that they received a miraculous gift.

What was it? The miraculous gift of hearing? Preposterous. No such thing in scripture. It was the disciples that had the gift and spoke in those peoples language from those different countries.

It also doesn't help your ridiculous belittling. I dont see how you can try to belittle me when I am almost having to spell things out in macaroni and crayons with you.

The Jews had no miraculous gifts. The disciples did.

The disciples with their gift of tongues spoke in the language the Jews from those different countries could understand.

So its more like this:

Three disciples come and speak to all the countries that are in their presence.

One spoke German
One spoke French
One spoke English

All the countries that were present were French, German and English

One spoke English
One spoke German
One spoke French

And therefore they heard the disciples, who were Galilean born, speak their language from their native tongue.

Its really that simple.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

@CharismaticLady
You must feel like you threw an apple at the hornet's next with this topic. So much venom. Oh well, by their works...

The only unrighteous judgment is coming from your keyboard.

 

[Butch5]

Have you discovered your gift yet? Or too busy bashing them to find it?

I didn't bash anything. I simply said they ceased.

 

[Saint Steven]

I didn't bash anything. I simply said they ceased.

No gifts from Santa? Maybe next year. - lol

 

[Butch5]

There are two accounts. One in Acts 10 and one in Acts 11.
How can you say "... we don't know what all was going on." ?

You seem to be playing on both sides of that fence. If we say something, you want biblical proof. If we question you, you claim there is no way to know for sure.

I gave you Biblical proof. You argue from a passage to say that Peter didn't lay his hands on Cornelius. The passage doesn't say that Peter didn't lay his hands on Cornelius. There's just no record in the passage that he did. If it's not stated then you have to assume that it didn't happen. I'm sure that there was a lot that happened at Cornelius' house that day that wasn't recorded.

Using that argument we'd have to assume that the apostles never went to the bathroom because it's not recorded.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Paul wrote that to the Corinthian church who already were using that gift. He gave instructions to them to regulate it, at that time.
Tongues were a sign for sure:
1cor14:22

Tongues in private are not a sign only, but for edification.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Curious, do you believe the Holy Spirit is a thing or object?
Or do you believe the Holy Spirit is a he with personality etc?

The Holy Spirit is firstly a person, co-equal and co-existent with the Son and the Father. But he extends His presence as oil to anoint and empower intimately the chosen vessels. There is the fire of God, living water, anointing, bread of life, light, pouring love. God's revelation, His word is empowered, yet the Bible is a thing. I am in two minds as to call the anointing Him or It.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Statements like this show that you dont hold the bible as authoritative really at all. That it needs help.

Yet scripture blatantly states 2 Timothy 3:16-17. If there are inconsistencies, it is because they dismiss what the bible says and do not understand what is being said, thinking they couldnt be wrong, that God is more likely to be wrong than they. After all, it is God who wrote the bible by the Holy Spirit through men.

If one does not hold the bible as the only authority in these matters, discussing to them using scripture would be difficult. Just my assumption for now, but you may seem to think the Holy Spirit is just an object or thing.

I would follow Derek Prince on the Bible, it is part of absolute truth. If the Word, the Spirit and Jesus align as three coordinates, we have absolute truth. I quoted the verse in full you refer to above. Which translation do you use?

Looking at the last chapter of Revelation, there is the river of life flowing from the throne for us all. And we are told not to cut out part of this book. The word and the Spirit are essentially complimentary. Jesus last words in the Gospel are that He will be with us to the end of the age. Psalm 139, the ends of the Earth, and 1 Corinthians 12-14 that there are gifts from His presence that we need. We must not omit them.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Well yes it does matter if what you claim to be practicing is not the true gift of tongues, but rather a counterfeit.

If we ask for the Spirit of God Satan can't push in.

As to drunkeness, we are self controlled and the Spirit allows that. He is in control loving our free will. He is underneath. "The government shall be upon His shoulders." Sometimes the Spirit manifests in drunkeness. "Love controls."

If we have the word and not the Spirit, we have the Pelagian heresy.

We are meant to be sober, but not to critically judge God.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

The missions must go on. Cessationism accepted the deaths of Peter and Paul and the constraint on the church as God's will and plan. With the 1500 years of mission stagnation. Recently Reinhard Bonnke passed and his mission CFAN totalled 79,000,000 filled cards following alter calls for new births.

Such missions are the essence of God's will, so Christ returns or the end comes after all the world hears the Gospel. For this he, and we, need the Spirit and the fate and destiny acceptors think the gifts ceased with the deaths of the apostles and that it was predestiny? This is an error. God would prefer it if all the world heard the Gospel a 1000 years ago. Neither the stalling of the church or cessation is God's will.