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[Saint Steven]

things that make you go hmmmm .........

where is hell mentioned in the passage ?

I wrote"hell" not hell.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Universalists don't just believe that everyone will go to heaven, we also believe that everyone will go to "hell" first.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

 

[Saint Steven]

@Saint Steven Not a universalist here, because universal belief is that every road leads to Heaven. However as Christianity teaches that the Lord Yeshua Christ is the way to the Kingdom of God.

I'm talking about Christian Universalism, not Unitarianism, or the brand of Universalism you mentioned.
I prefer to call it Universal Restorationism. All creation will be restored. Thanks.

 

[Saint Steven]

People like to get hell confused, with the lake of fire.

Did you guys know that God is a consuming fire, is love, is spirit? Did you know that Yeshua Christ baptizes in fire, and spirit? (Hebrews 12:29; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16)

You should know when you place something in a fire that whatever is placed on an alter is burned down.

Have you ever considered that because of God being a consuming fire, is also love, is also spirit. (Hebrews 12:29; 1 John 4:8; John 4:24)

That love burns like a fire? If you have the spirit inside of you, the spirit that is of love, is of Christ, and of fire, is able to burn down your flesh because of the spirit?

You are describing the "hell" I am talking about. The fires of restoration we will all be salted with. We share a lot in common in this regard.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's like pruning a grapevine (John 15) which are cut back, but then have a chance to grow more fruit afterwards. The spirit /(God by the spirit) can prune us back, from our flesh: Our hate, drug use, inappropriate contentography usage, divisions, frustrations, sexual immorality, strife, lasciviousness, idolatry, wrath, strife, enying, drunkness.

That is the "hell" I am describing. Making us ready for heaven.
I like this biblical description.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I wrote"hell" not hell.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Universalists don't just believe that everyone will go to heaven, we also believe that everyone will go to "hell" first.

Mark 9:49
Everyone will be salted with fire.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

I see you made it up and added to scripture since hell is not mentioned in the passage.

 

[Saint Steven]

I see you made it up and added to scripture since hell is not mentioned in the passage.

That's a false accusation. I didn't add anything to scripture.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I'm talking about Christian Universalism,

thats an oxymoron

its like saying christian annihilation which is an oxymoron

you can't call a doctrine rejected by scripture " christian"

 

[Saint Steven]

thats an oxymoron

its like saying christian annihilation which is an oxymoron

you can't call a doctrine rejected by scripture " christian"

Wrong on all counts.
There is a form of Universalism that is not Christian Universalism.
And all three doctrinal views of the final judgment have biblical support.
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Universal Restorationism

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Wrong on all counts.
There is a form of Universalism that is not Christian Universalism.
And all three doctrinal views of the final judgment have biblical support.
1) Damnationism
2) Annihilationism
3) Universal Restorationism

keep on telling yourself those lies and soon enough you will believe its true. thats how deception works.

 

[Der Alte]

...

I wrote"hell" not hell.
Saint Steven said: ↑
Universalists don't just believe that everyone will go to heaven, we also believe that everyone will go to "hell" first.

Mk 9:49 Everyone will be salted with fire.
1 Cor 3:12-15 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Heterodox nonsense. Scripture twisting at its finest.
Somebody ask him to show even one verse which states a person is saved by fire?
UR-ites do not understand what Mk 9:49 is talking about.
Fire does NOT save.

Leviticus 2:13
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.​

Every suitable offering is salted. The salt does not make it suitable it must be acceptable to God to be offered.
1 Cor 3:15 is a favorite verse UR-ites like to quote out-of-context desperately trying to make it say all mankind will be saved.

1 Corinthians 3:9-17
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;​

This entire passage, vss. 9-17, is not addressed to all mankind, it is addressed to a specific group of believers; “laborers together with God, God's husbandry, God's building,” vs. 9, “who build on the foundation of Jesus Christ” vs. 10,
Vs. 15 does NOT refer to the mundane daily toils of unsaved mankind. Unbelievers are not saved by having their mundane daily works destroyed.
"no man,""any man,""every man," from vs. 9 to 17 refers to that same group. Vs. 15 does not suddenly refer to all mankind.

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, [foundation of Christ vs. 12] he shall receive a reward.​

“In vss. 13-14 every man’s”/”any man’s work” does NOT refer to the daily mundane works of unsaved people but those who build upon the foundation of Christ, vs. 12.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

Vs. 15 continues referring to “any man,” who builds on the foundation of Christ, vs. 14,. Unsaved mankind are NOT the temple of God. We can plainly see that vs. 15 does not state or imply that all mankind will be saved, no matter what, because vs. 17 says that any man who defiles the temple will be destroyed NOT saved.

 

[mlepfitjw]

null

 

[mlepfitjw]

Man, if I could only delete threads.

 

[Randy777]

Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell.

I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but that is what he did. He did for us.

Lets remember facts that afterlife location of all people for the Jews before Yeshua overcame everything was Sheol in english, and it means a covering place. Everybody went to the place that was covered.

What was it covered from? God. Because they were not cleansed from sin. The blood of animals could not cleanse them. Even the good Abraham went to hell, after he died, he went to a place of peace. The rest that were evil went to a place called prison. So they all went to a place called Sheol under this covering. And we find to the activities of Yeshua, after he died on the cross, this is what peter says later.

Which is found in 1 Peter 3: It says this listen closely.

• 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
• Listen : 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
• 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

So the idea is, he is on the cross, he dies, where did he go for the three days?
Peter tells 1 Peter 3:18-20, that he went to sheol, where in sheol? He went to the prison part of sheol.

Now this is a mystery I cannot explain it. He preached to the spirits in prison which were sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Simply put the idea seems to be Christ went to the prison and preached. The word preached in the Greek doesn't mean evangelize, it means to pronounce something to make an announcement.

Every time the gospel is preached in the New Testament; evangelize in the Greek is the word that is used.

But when Yeshua/Jesus goes preaches to the spirits in prison, it's not evangelize, it's just to make announcement, and who did he make the announcement to? He went and made an announcement, to the people who were disobedient from the time of Noah, and He said?

We do not know, what he said. He made an announcement to them.

It could have been "guess what Noah was right", because Noah preached 120 years while he was building the ark.

You just needed to read a little further
Jesus purchased their souls for God by His blood for they died apart from law and long before the light of the gospel message.
1 Peter 4
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

And in regard to Jesus's comings and goings during those 3 days that preaching was the only thing given and He was "alive" in the Spirit.

Put to death in the flesh but alive in the Spirit.

 

[Sammy-San]

Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell.

I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but that is what he did. He did for us.

Lets remember facts that afterlife location of all people for the Jews before Yeshua overcame everything was Sheol in english, and it means a covering place. Everybody went to the place that was covered.

What was it covered from? God. Because they were not cleansed from sin. The blood of animals could not cleanse them. Even the good Abraham went to hell, after he died, he went to a place of peace. The rest that were evil went to a place called prison. So they all went to a place called Sheol under this covering. And we find to the activities of Yeshua, after he died on the cross, this is what peter says later.

Which is found in 1 Peter 3: It says this listen closely.

• 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
• Listen : 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
• 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

So the idea is, he is on the cross, he dies, where did he go for the three days?
Peter tells 1 Peter 3:18-20, that he went to sheol, where in sheol? He went to the prison part of sheol.

Now this is a mystery I cannot explain it. He preached to the spirits in prison which were sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Simply put the idea seems to be Christ went to the prison and preached. The word preached in the Greek doesn't mean evangelize, it means to pronounce something to make an announcement.

Every time the gospel is preached in the New Testament; evangelize in the Greek is the word that is used.

But when Yeshua/Jesus goes preaches to the spirits in prison, it's not evangelize, it's just to make announcement, and who did he make the announcement to? He went and made an announcement, to the people who were disobedient from the time of Noah, and He said?

We do not know, what he said. He made an announcement to them.

It could have been "guess what Noah was right", because Noah preached 120 years while he was building the ark.

He preached to the fallen angels.

 

[Der Alte]

Man, if I could only delete threads.

Go to support center https://www.christianforums.com/link-forums/support-center.1218/
Ask mods to close it.