mlepfitjw

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Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell.

I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but that is what he did. He did for us.

Lets remember facts that afterlife location of all people for the Jews before Yeshua overcame everything was Sheol in english, and it means a covering place. Everybody went to the place that was covered.

What was it covered from? God. Because they were not cleansed from sin. The blood of animals could not cleanse them. Even the good Abraham went to hell, after he died, he went to a place of peace. The rest that were evil went to a place called prison. So they all went to a place called Sheol under this covering. And we find to the activities of Yeshua, after he died on the cross, this is what peter says later.

Which is found in 1 Peter 3: It says this listen closely.
  • 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
  • Listen : 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
  • 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
So the idea is, he is on the cross, he dies, where did he go for the three days?
Peter tells 1 Peter 3:18-20, that he went to sheol, where in sheol? He went to the prison part of sheol.

Now this is a mystery I cannot explain it. He preached to the spirits in prison which were sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Simply put the idea seems to be Christ went to the prison and preached. The word preached in the Greek doesn't mean evangelize, it means to pronounce something to make an announcement.

Every time the gospel is preached in the New Testament; evangelize in the Greek is the word that is used.

But when Yeshua/Jesus goes preaches to the spirits in prison, it's not evangelize, it's just to make announcement, and who did he make the announcement to? He went and made an announcement, to the people who were disobedient from the time of Noah, and He said?

We do not know, what he said. He made an announcement to them.

It could have been "guess what Noah was right", because Noah preached 120 years while he was building the ark.
 

solid_core

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Every time the gospel is preached in the New Testament; evangelize in the Greek is the word that is used.
Thats not true.

For example:
"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom"
Mt 4:23

The same word as in 1Peter 3:19 is used.

And its also on like 20 or so more places.
 
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solid_core

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Hi solid_core, okay. As humans we are prone to make mistakes.
True. Maybe I will define a new law, something like "the longer the OP is, the more mistakes it contains" and name it in some cool way :)
 
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Andrewn

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Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell. I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but that is what he did. He did for us. Lets remember facts that afterlife location of all people for the Jews before Yeshua overcame everything was Sheol in english, and it means a covering place. Everybody went to the place that was covered.
There are several Hebrew and Greek words that were translated into "Hell" in the KJV. There were good reasons for this that based on comparing Norse and Greek mythologies. But the meaning of Hell has changed and our modern common understanding of Hell is only applicable to the biblical Lake of Fire. Jesus did not go there.

As far as Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades are concerned, it is best to leave these words untranslated, or if we absolutely have to translate them they can be rendered into the Underworld (or the Netherworld), as in the Catholic NAB, or the Spirit Prison, based on 1Pe 3:19.

Now this is a mystery I cannot explain it. He preached to the spirits in prison which were sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. Simply put the idea seems to be Christ went to the prison and preached.
The idea that Christ preached in the Spirit Prison is accepted by Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, and most Pentecostals. It is not accepted by Reformed or Baptists (mostly).

As @solid_core pointed out, Jesus truly preached the Gospel in the Spirit Prison / Underworld.

The question that I have is whether only OT Jews were saved or that, at least some, Pagans were also saved?

The second question is what does Noah and his days have to do with this whole episode?

And the third question is whether Christ still preaches to the spirits in the Underworld?
 
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chevyontheriver

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Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell.
Another way to ask the question is to ask whether Yeshua/Jesus was damned. Some affirm that he was.
 
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mlepfitjw

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There are several Hebrew and Greek words that were translated into "Hell" in the KJV. There were good reasons for this that based on comparing Norse and Greek mythologies. But the meaning of Hell has changed and our modern common understanding of Hell is only applicable to the biblical Lake of Fire.

When it comes to what the modern world sees today as Hell as the place of burning and gnashing of teeth, which has the Lake of Fire burning people alive, because that is what God desires, is something that I completely disagree with.

As far as Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades are concerned, it is best to leave these words untranslated, or if we absolutely have to translate them they can be rendered into the Underworld (or the Netherworld), as in the Catholic NAB, or the Spirit Prison, based on 1Pe 3:19.

Andrew, for what purpose do would be the reason of not having to translate the words for? Sheol was the covering place for the dead, which has a place of peace, and had a prison part in it.

Is there evidence for this conclusion found in the old testament?

Thinking about the old testament, and how God's chosen nation was the people of Israel.

How would the Jewish people understand what was Sheol was if they have no Greek understanding?


The idea that Christ preached in the Spirit Prison is accepted by Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, and most Pentecostals. It is not accepted by Reformed or Baptists (mostly).
Noted.

As @solid_core pointed out, Jesus truly preached the Gospel in the Spirit Prison / Underworld.

The question that I have is whether only OT Jews were saved or that, at least some, Pagans were also saved?

The second question is what does Noah and his days have to do with this whole episode?

And the third question is whether Christ still preaches to the spirits in the Underworld?

The question that I have is whether only OT Jews were saved or that, at least some, Pagans were also saved? This is a question that is not understood fully.

The second question is what does Noah and his days have to do with this whole episode? My first thought on this question which is a great one.

All the people that God had created that he had basically wiped way with the flood, in the days of Noah because of their disobedience he sought to have them be freed from the prison they were in.

Now it becomes speculative of what Yeshua/Jesus had spoke to them, because you say the Gospel was preached to them, but however I believe He came to make some type of announcement.

And the third question is whether Christ still preaches to the spirits in the Underworld?

If you mean to covering place, that had a peace place, and a prison place, I believe due to the Yeshua/Jesus having already placed all enemies at his feet, giving everything back to his Father.

My answer would be No. Sheol/Hell is empty, both the peace, and prison part.

I always leave it open to my ability as a human to be wrong but none of these things are salvation issues.

Thank you for your questions Andrew.
 
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Andrewn

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Andrew, for what purpose do would be the reason of not having to translate the words for? Sheol was the covering place for the dead, which has a place of peace, and had a prison part in it.
All I'm saying is that Hebrew Sheol should not be translated into Hell. You can call it "the covering place for the dead" if you like. Do you have a reference for that name?

If you mean to covering place, that had a peace place, and a prison place, I believe due to the Yeshua/Jesus having already placed all enemies at his feet, giving everything back to his Father. My answer would be No. Sheol/Hell is empty, both the peace, and prison part.
I think you've answered my 1st question by saying that Sheol is empty. Where do spirits of the dead go now if Sheol is empty?
 
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mlepfitjw

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@Andrewn,

To your first question. No, no reference other than that was what my teacher had called it, a covering place for the dead. Looking up the word Sheol, underworld was there so now it makes more sense why you used it.

The only conclusion that is possible is that not everyone had their sin paid for, because of animal sacrifice could not, maybe that is why they were in a place covered away from God because of that.

Yeshua happened to be in and go to this place after dying on the cross. (He mentioned being in paradise with the thief, maybe he traveled on down to the prison to see the people from the time of Noah) *Just a thought that hit me from another thread, and speculation.

To your second question, all spirits return to God however, not all are brought into the Heavenly Jerusalem right away. It seems to me from what the bible states is that, some people even after they die, can be outside of God, and the Lambs presence.

  • Rev 22: 14 14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;
  • 15 and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie.

I do not fully understand it myself completely, though my hope is that all people will come towards the light, even if they do not find it now in this life, that they will make the choice to turn back in the after life outside of the gates of the Heavenly Jerusalem that doesn't seem to ever to close them off.
 
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Der Alte

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All I'm saying is that Hebrew Sheol should not be translated into Hell. You can call it "the covering place for the dead" if you like. Do you have a reference for that name?
I think you've answered my 1st question by saying that Sheol is empty. Where do spirits of the dead go now if Sheol is empty?
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the יהודים/Yehudim/ιουδαιων/Youdaion/Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, translated hades and gehenna in the 225 BC LXX and the NT.
…..There were different factions within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of modern Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
http://www.jevzajcg.me/enciklopedia/Encyclopaedia Judaica, v. 07 (Fey-Gor).pdf
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]:
"And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more.
Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell [Γέεννα/gehenna] where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.
The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent.
When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If that Jewish teaching was wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

 
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Andrewn

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Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom,
I'm not sure why you say this when about everybody knows that "Gehenna is considered a purgatory-like place where the wicked go to suffer until they have atoned for their sins. It is stated in most Jewish sources that the maximum amount of time a sinner can spend in Gehenna is one year."

Gehenna - Wikipedia

In the 1st century, relatives of a deceased person usually picked up his remaining bones after 11 months and put them in an "ossuary." They did this so as not to imply that their relative was a terrible sinner deserving of the maximum time in Gehenna.

Caiaphas ossuary - Wikipedia

"Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-][Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of modern Christian translators. DA]
Is this another logical trick :)? In 700 BC, the Jews spoke Hebrew, right. Did the Jews know about "Hell" from the Old Norse mythology in 700 BC? "The modern English word hell is derived from Old English hel, helle (first attested around 725 AD to refer to a nether world of the dead) reaching into the Anglo-Saxon pagan period.[1] The word has cognates in all branches of the Germanic languages, including Old Norse hel (which refers to both a location and goddess-like being in Norse mythology), Old Frisian helle, Old Saxon hellia, Old High German hella, and Gothic halja. All forms ultimately derive from the reconstructed Proto-Germanic feminine noun *xaljō or *haljō ('concealed place, the underworld')."

Hell - Wikipedia

.These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above.
Most Jews did not believe Gehenna was eternal. But they did believe some extremely evil people will have eternal punishment (not in Gehenna). I don't believe in universal salvation.

..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,
“Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
I accept this. I don't believe in annihilation.

If I missed any important points, plz let me know.
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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Did Yeshua/Jesus go to hell, after he died? Absolutely, straight to hell.

I know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but that is what he did. He did for us.

Lets remember facts that afterlife location of all people for the Jews before Yeshua overcame everything was Sheol in english, and it means a covering place. Everybody went to the place that was covered.

What was it covered from? God. Because they were not cleansed from sin. The blood of animals could not cleanse them. Even the good Abraham went to hell, after he died, he went to a place of peace. The rest that were evil went to a place called prison. So they all went to a place called Sheol under this covering. And we find to the activities of Yeshua, after he died on the cross, this is what peter says later.

Which is found in 1 Peter 3: It says this listen closely.
  • 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
  • Listen : 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
  • 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
So the idea is, he is on the cross, he dies, where did he go for the three days?
Peter tells 1 Peter 3:18-20, that he went to sheol, where in sheol? He went to the prison part of sheol.

Now this is a mystery I cannot explain it. He preached to the spirits in prison which were sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Simply put the idea seems to be Christ went to the prison and preached. The word preached in the Greek doesn't mean evangelize, it means to pronounce something to make an announcement.

Every time the gospel is preached in the New Testament; evangelize in the Greek is the word that is used.

But when Yeshua/Jesus goes preaches to the spirits in prison, it's not evangelize, it's just to make announcement, and who did he make the announcement to? He went and made an announcement, to the people who were disobedient from the time of Noah, and He said?

We do not know, what he said. He made an announcement to them.

It could have been "guess what Noah was right", because Noah preached 120 years while he was building the ark.
Some have the viewpoint that Jesus went to “hell” or the suffering side of sheol/hades in order to further be punished for our sins. This idea is completely unbiblical. It was the death of Jesus on the cross that sufficiently provided for our redemption. It was His shed blood that effected our own cleansing from sin (1 John 1:7–9). As He hung there on the cross, He took the sin burden of the whole human race upon Himself. He became sin for us: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). This imputation of sin helps us understand Christ’s struggle in the garden of Gethsemane with the cup of sin which would be poured out upon Him on the cross.

As Jesus neared death, He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). His suffering in our place was completed. His soul/spirit went to hades (the place of the dead). Jesus did not go to “hell” or the suffering side of hades; He went to “Abraham’s side” or the blessed side of hades. Jesus’ suffering ended the moment He died. The payment for sin was paid. He then awaited the resurrection of His body and His return to glory in His ascension. Did Jesus go to hell? No. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes. got ?

hope this helps !!!
 
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mlepfitjw

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Some have the viewpoint that Jesus went to “hell” or the suffering side of sheol/hades in order to further be punished for our sins. This idea is completely unbiblical.

Hell/Sheol/Hades from my view are all the same. The scriptures seem to indicate at least after the death on the cross, he went into the covered place just like everyone else did at that time. The peace(paradise)/prison place.

In fact Yeshua said to the thief today you shall be with me in paradise. Only speculation from my view would say that Yeshua, did go to sheol/hades/hell. Starting from the paradise part and maybe in 3 days traveling down to the prison part, which had the spirits from Noahs day whom where disobedient.

After all this takes place God raises Yeshua back from the dead.

(Sorry my teaching has concluded that sheol/hades/hell are all the same place. Where there was a place around the Valley of Hinnon which is to believed to be called Gehenna which was a materialistic place and sheol/hades/hell all being the covering place for the dead rendering these words all spiritual.)

Hope that this helps understand a bit more of me as a believer in Yeshua. @Jesus is YHWH

It was the death of Jesus on the cross that sufficiently provided for our redemption. It was His shed blood that effected our own cleansing from sin (1 John 1:7–9). As He hung there on the cross, He took the sin burden of the whole human race upon Himself. He became sin for us: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). This imputation of sin helps us understand Christ’s struggle in the garden of Gethsemane with the cup of sin which would be poured out upon Him on the cross.

@Jesus is YHWH , No disagreement here, Yeshua Christ did pay the sins for all of mankind once and for all by being put to death on the cross. This does help being reminded of what Yeshua has done, and even the moment he really started becoming more burdened with our sins as he traveled from Gethsemane, and being turned in by Judas, and being severely beaten and bashed for the sins of all the world.

No once tell them to stop, or fight against what went on. Tough person Yeshua was, and his love for the Father was 100. Who was right there with-in Him the whole time, until the very last moment where Yeshua called out My God My God why has thou forsaken me. Dying by giving up the spirit.

As Jesus neared death, He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30). His suffering in our place was completed. His soul/spirit went to hades (the place of the dead). Jesus did not go to “hell” or the suffering side of hades; He went to “Abraham’s side” or the blessed side of hades. Jesus’ suffering ended the moment He died. The payment for sin was paid. He then awaited the resurrection of His body and His return to glory in His ascension. Did Jesus go to hell? No. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes. got ?

I disagree but that is okay. What do you believe hell is, @Jesus is YHWH ?
 
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