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BNR32FAN · Apr 6, 2021

chad kincham said:
The fact that the elect nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, (whom He longed for them to come to Him, yet they would not), who killed the prophets sent to them, and Jesus who came for them, because as Stephen said, THEY RESISTED THE HOLY SPIRIT. shreds calvinism and reformed dogma into itty bitty microscopic pieces lying in the trash can.

The Holy Spirit is resistible - no such thing as irresistible grace.

The fact that faith comes by Hearing Gods word, Romans 10:17, instead of by being regenerated by irresistible grace because of election before believing, also shreds the philosophy of fatalistic determinism masquerading as biblical doctrine, called reformed doctrine/ Calvinism into pieces.

I think Romans 2 is one of the strongest messages refuting irresistible grace in my opinion.

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

chad kincham said:
The fact that the elect nation of Israel, whom Jesus came for, (whom He longed for them to come to Him, yet they would not), who killed the prophets sent to them, and Jesus who came for them, because as Stephen said, THEY RESISTED THE HOLY SPIRIT. shreds calvinism and reformed dogma into itty bitty microscopic pieces lying in the trash can.

The Holy Spirit is resistible - no such thing as irresistible grace.

The fact that faith comes by Hearing Gods word, Romans 10:17, instead of by being regenerated by irresistible grace because of election before believing, also shreds the philosophy of fatalistic determinism masquerading as biblical doctrine, called reformed doctrine/ Calvinism into pieces.

Most of Israel was lost. But salvation was of the Jews and nowhere else to be found. It's the same today with the Church being Israel.

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Dave just curious

Where do you get that from? Who taught you that?

So God only choses select people to be saved in this life now today?

Is this what you are suggesting?

Where in the bible do you use scriptures to use to back up your claims of these things being the truth?

What is human faith? Can you explain it more to me?

Faith = 4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

Believe = 4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.

You make a choice to believe and have confidence in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and God saving you to the kingdom of God right?

Or is it that I still have it backwards Dave L?

God most certainly plays a part in our faith because of learning about God and the Lord Jesus Christ. God is the one who woos people to himself through Christ Jesus.

However can not people reject that? Or are they force to ride out something they never wanted or saw the need for?

Here's a tip. Google and study the 5 points of Calvinism. It will explain much you seem to be lacking.

AubreyM · Apr 6, 2021

Dave L said:
Here's a tip. Google and study the 5 points of Calvinism. It will explain much you seem to be lacking.

I reject that teaching, thank you for the offer though. Still love you Anyway and you can believe that if you desire. Take care @Dave L

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
I reject that teaching, thank you for the offer though.

Have you ever studied it? Or just heard a negative review of it?

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
I reject that teaching, thank you for the offer though. Still love you Anyway and you can believe that if you desire. Take care @Dave L

What if Calvin is right about the election of grace? Does this mean you reject God?

BNR32FAN · Apr 6, 2021

Dave L said:
Here's a tip. Google and study the 5 points of Calvinism. It will explain much you seem to be lacking.

We know where it came from and what it teaches. Are those websites going to address the scriptures that we’ve provided that refute Calvin’s doctrines? No they won’t.

Studyman · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Hello study man,

Good scripture to use, they are very useful to use spiritually today, and how it shows the character of a believer. Thank you for sharing, those are most certainly good to read and take in.

My post is to let people know all the sins are paid for.

This should be known to that following and dedicating your life to God and Christ Jesus is a daily thing. To pray, give thanks, read some of the Bible and learn about God and Jesus Christ,
Build your faith up in them and trust in them.

The overall Goal in this is to increase your faith, and increase your love for God and for others, we will never be perfect but don’t give up on God he did save you from your sins and desire to give you peace in your life even through tribulation and suffering for Christ.

Suffering for Christ is also a biblical tenant taught in the scriptures.

hoping one day to provide more in about two months when Lord willing I live that long to experience a Thompson chain study Bible.

I appreciate the thoughts behind your post. My point is that we should allow the Christ Himself to instruct us as to what Salvation is. Especially in the light of so many warnings about doctrines and commandments of men who call HIM Lord. I posted the scriptures for examination, so we can see what Jesus has to say about things.

You said "My post is to let people know all the sins are paid for".

Jesus said;

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If their sin was paid for, or going to be paid for, how can it remain? It is written in the Holy Scriptures that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. If all sin in the world is covered/ forgiven/forgotten by His Death, then there would be no sin "From the foundation of the world".

There are many religions who call Jesus their God, but Jesus said if they live in transgression to His Father's Law HE doesn't know them. I believe these Warnings and Word's of the Christ of the Bible are important too, and in Love wanted to share them so we can be edified by HIS Truth, "All of it".

Studyman · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
hello study man.

all sins are forgiven -> we are born spiritually dead. You are using scripture share the one with nicodemous and being born again.

Again, I am convinced the Word's of the Bible are truth, while the words of religious men, not so much.

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

If the sins of the world are already paid for, then these people wouldn't have to change "Before" their sins are blotted out.

It seems that according to the Bible, Jesus has the power to blot out the sins of every man ever born in this world. And HE is Faithful to atone for the sins of EVERY man who follow His Instructions, IOW, whosoever comes to Him. This seems perfectly reasonable to me, I find no reason to leave this part out of any conversation regarding salvation.

Randy777 · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men.

There is only one God.

There is only one mediator between God and Men.

the man Christ Jesus. -> Faith on the Lord Jesus Christ -> Access to God our Father.

Who gave Himself -> The Man Christ Jesus -> as a ransom for all.

The testimony that was given at the right time.

Christ Jesus the Man Son of God of Nazareth paid for all the sins of the world.

Ransom: 487 487 antílytron (from 473 /antí, "corresponding to, instead of/exchange" and 3083 /lýtron, "ransom-price") – properly, a full ransom, referring to Christ paying the complete purchase-price to secure our freedom (redemption) – i.e. Christ exchanging His eternal righteousness for our sin (cf. Ro 3:26; 2 Cor 5:21).

1 John 2: 2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The world -> 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world. Usage: the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.

This is the message.

IF you have not repented and turned to God yet and turned to the Lord Jesus Christ or you have been on the fence of deciding or not.

Jesus Christ has paid for the entire world (Everyone's) sins already. You have been forgiven now today and all that there is to do is to believe and have faith, that He overcame, death, sin, Satan, and the grave.

Today you can have a relationship with God, today. Jesus Christ came, died, and resurrected and God loves you, now as you are -> And sent his son Jesus Christ to pay for the sins. - > who was resurrected from the dead by God.

It doesn't require faith to have your sins forgiven.

That work has already been done.

Universal reconciliation -> the payment of all sins for all people, is a sound biblical doctrine.

Universal salvation -> Is not true.

Everyone in this life has to make a choice to turn towards God, and make a choice accept the Good News of the Lord Jesus Christ who came to save us to the kingdom of God that we can be spiritually reborn and live by the spirit and have a an relationship with God and through the Lord Jesus Christ.

The choice you make decides on if you are saved to the Kingdom of God or not.

Will you have faith on the Lord Jesus Christ, and Trust God and his promises?

Link (under signature for more information)

Do you have any comments or suggestions on any of these things?

We do not use the forgiveness, for a license to sin however to grow in love towards God, and the Lord Jesus Christ for what they have done in this life for all people.

Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

A lack of repentance would suggest one who continues to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
The Lords appointing of Paul shows a change of heart for "receiving" the forgiveness of sins and a declaration of being sanctified by "faith" in Him.

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commands will be saved.

Two asked something of Jesus when He was on the cross but only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

AubreyM · Apr 6, 2021

Studyman said:
I appreciate the thoughts behind your post. My point is that we should allow the Christ Himself to instruct us as to what Salvation is. Especially in the light of so many warnings about doctrines and commandments of men who call HIM Lord. I posted the scriptures for examination, so we can see what Jesus has to say about things.

You said "My post is to let people know all the sins are paid for".

Jesus said;

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If their sin was paid for, or going to be paid for, how can it remain? It is written in the Holy Scriptures that Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. If all sin in the world is covered/ forgiven/forgotten by His Death, then there would be no sin "From the foundation of the world".

There are many religions who call Jesus their God, but Jesus said if they live in transgression to His Father's Law HE doesn't know them. I believe these Warnings and Word's of the Christ of the Bible are important too, and in Love wanted to share them so we can be edified by HIS Truth, "All of it".

Hello study man, it is understandable.

This was before he died and resurrected.

When Jesus Christ was walking around -> Sin was not paid for yet.

Jesus Christ eventually did die. Some people had their eyes open afterwards to their sin of unbelief -> some continued in it.

The wrath of God was eventually poured out on the nation of Israel -> because of their sin against God -> not repenting or believing.

What do you mean about From the foundation of the world?

spiritfilledjm · Apr 6, 2021

(I'm sure this point has already been made...However as I'm late to the party, I'm not reading through every response which is up to 6 pages haha)

Repented or not, yes, God forgave us our sins. However, Hebrews 10:26-27 makes it completely clear that anyone who willfully chooses to live a life of sin, there is no sacrifice for them, only judgement because they threw the sacrifice Jesus made in his face.

Let's say I get shot and cuss because of the pain. I die from my wounds without asking forgiveness for cussing...God is still just to forgive, He knows my heart.

Let's say I choose to live a life of crime, I commit murder, I steal with no remorse, but I read my Bible and believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins so I can do what I want with no consequences...that is willfully sinning...I may know God exists and His Son died for my sins but I do not actually believe, if I did I would be bearing the fruit of that belief.

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Hello study man, it is understandable.

This was before he died and resurrected.

When Jesus Christ was walking around -> Sin was not paid for yet.

Jesus Christ eventually did die. Some people had their eyes open afterwards to their sin of unbelief -> some continued in it.

The wrath of God was eventually poured out on the nation of Israel -> because of their sin against God -> not repenting or believing.

What do you mean about From the foundation of the world?

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)

Did Christ pay for the sins of the damned?

AubreyM · Apr 6, 2021

Dave L said:
What if Calvin is right about the election of grace? Does this mean you reject God?

Conjecture. Still love you even if you believe in Calvin, and believe in his teaching.

Randy777 said:
A lack of repentance would suggest one who continues to sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth.
The Lords appointing of Paul shows a change of heart for "receiving" the forgiveness of sins and a declaration of being sanctified by "faith" in Him.

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commands will be saved.

Two asked something of Jesus when He was on the cross but only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

Thank you for your post.

spiritfilledjm said:
(I'm sure this point has already been made...However as I'm late to the party, I'm not reading through every response which is up to 6 pages haha)

Repented or not, yes, God forgave us our sins. However, Hebrews 10:26-27 makes it completely clear that anyone who willfully chooses to live a life of sin, there is no sacrifice for them, only judgement because they threw the sacrifice Jesus made in his face.

Let's say I get shot and cuss because of the pain. I die from my wounds without asking forgiveness for cussing...God is still just to forgive, He knows my heart.

Let's say I choose to live a life of crime, I commit murder, I steal with no remorse, but I read my Bible and believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins so I can do what I want with no consequences...that is willfully sinning...I may know God exists and His Son died for my sins but I do not actually believe, if I did I would be bearing the fruit of that belief.

Thank you for your post.

AubreyM · Apr 6, 2021

Dave L said:
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8 (KJV 1900)

Did Christ pay for the sins of the damned?

Yes. He paid for the sins of every person, including those who perished in the flood of Noah.

He came preaching to those in prison of She'ol according to 1 Peter 3:19

Those from noahs age @Dave L

*Edit correction

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Conjecture. Still love you even if you believe in Calvin, and believe in his teaching.

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for your post.

What if you are wrong? And Calvin is right? How can you serve God if you hate God as Calvin presents Him in sin and grace?

Dave L · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Yes. He paid for the sins of every person, including those who perished in the flood of Noah.

So He didn't save any if he didn't save them.

AubreyM · Apr 6, 2021

Not going to communicate with this dialogue anymore.

Personally reject Calvin's doctrine of TULIP.

Do not hate you, or am I going to tell you what you believe is wrong, you believe what you desire to believe. For me am going to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God our Father.

Though you can have freedom to believe Calvin and his doctrine that is fine with me, and have no problem with you as a Christian brother who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.

God bless you @Dave L, Jesus Christ is right, and has had the victory over Sin, Death, Satan, and Hell.

spiritfilledjm · Apr 6, 2021

AubreyM said:
Conjecture. Still love you even if you believe in Calvin, and believe in his teaching.

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for your post.

Thank you for being a great example of today's Verse of the Day from Youversion's Bible App, 1 Peter 3:15

BNR32FAN · Apr 6, 2021

Dave L said:
What if Calvin is right about the election of grace? Does this mean you reject God?

I wish Calvin were here to explain to me how in Romans 2:4-5 Paul says that God’s patience and kindness is leading someone to repentance and they their own stubbornness they are storing up for their self the wrath of God on judgement day. I don’t see how that’s not a clear example of God granting grace to someone and they are resisting it. Or better yet Jesus’ own words in Luke 13:6-9.

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:6-9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Even despite Jesus Himself giving special attention to the tree the outcome is still uncertain whether the tree will bear fruit or if it will be chopped down. That’s another clear sign that despite someone being granted grace they are still capable of failing to comply resulting in condemnation. So we can’t simply believe in Calvin’s theology because of the possibility he was right when the scriptures clearly indicate that he was wrong. There’s a perfectly good reason why his theology wasn’t taught for the first 1500 years of Christianity and has been rejected by every single church established by the apostles. If grace were irresistible then these people mentioned in Romans 2 could not possibly be storing up the wrath of God on judgement day due to their stubbornness and unwillingness to repent and every tree that Christ gives special attention to could not possibly fail to bear fruit and be chopped down. I think a more plausible question is what if the church had been right all along ever since the apostles established it 2000 years ago? Wouldn’t that make sense?

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