Null/please delete

[Dave L]

how about you come up with a specific that you have fact checked with an accepted academic commentary. There are promises and foreshadows of the Messiah throughout the O.T. BUT the Gospel was not revealed to those who died prior to the death of Jesus until he went into Sheol and preached the Gospel. Peter 3:19

The full gospel. God preached the gospel to Abraham... remember?

 

[disciple Clint]

It is not sufficient. And idol only entertains their superstition and plows them deeper into sin.

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:19 (KJV 1900)

No need to accept what I say I can provide evidence for my claims.
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Dave L]

No need to accept what I say I can provide evidence for my claims.
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org

How about this instead?

Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome that “whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope” (Rom. 15:4). He said to Timothy “that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:15). Indeed, the Jews were entrusted with the “oracles of God” (Rom. 3:2) which told of the promised Messiah. The Law at its best served as a “shadow of the good things to come” (Heb. 10:1). The universality of the gospel was indicated as “The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, ‘All the nations will be blessed in you’ ” (Gal. 3:8). It has been said that “the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.” These lectures explore various Old Testament themes, institutions, prophesies, and types that prefigure the redemptive message of the New Testament and show the unfolding of God’s scheme of redemption in Christ. We believe these studies will help lead us all to a greater appreciation of God’s grand scheme of redemption and better equip us to spread the good news of Christ.

The Gospel in the Old Testament

Author: Daniel W. Petty

 

[Sovereign Grace]

For those people who have never been exposed to the Gospel it is sufficient if they accept that God exists.

No it is not. Natural revelation does not tell them that God came as a man, lived 33 years on earth, was nailed on a cross, died and rose three days later from the grave.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

For those people who have never been exposed to the Gospel it is sufficient if they accept that God exists.

Romans 1:18 sets the context for vss 19ff.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Those who never heard the gospel do not know that Christ exists. They may know Him as Creator, but not as Savior(I believe Calvin stated it that way). They take what they see and attribute it to some sort of idol.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:22-23]


That is showing they attributed what they saw to some sort of ‘god’, some sort of idol.

 

[Fervent]

No need to accept what I say I can provide evidence for my claims.
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org

They're saying that those who haven't heard are justly condemned. A lot of the issue boils down to whether we recognize that God is just, or if we try to force our own definitions of justice from our limited understanding. If God is just, and those who never hear are truly condemned, their condemnation is just because God would not unjustly condemn. Their hearing the gospel or not is not something that is outside of God's control, and the knowledge that they are given of God is sufficiently understood that they may be condemned. If God saves more than those He explicitly states He is saving, He remains just(think Romans 9) so the argument over whether they must recognize fully His existence as a human and such wouldn't exclude them. We simply cannot teach that because God in no way indicates that acceptance of the gospel is optional or that salvation occurs in any other way, and we must preach the gospel as if them not hearing it is the same as being condemned.

 

[AbbaLove]

The Book of Hebrews is written foremost to/for the Hebrew/Jewish Believers in Yeshua as Israel's coming Messiah (King of kings and Lord of lords). Paul in Hebrews 8:11 is referring foremost to the future Hebrews/Jews living in peace in the New Jerusalem.

Hebrews 8:11
None of them will teach his fellow-citizen or his brother, saying, “Know Adonai!”
For all will know Me, from the least of them to the greatest,​

Read: Jeremiah 31:38-40, Micah 4:4, Zechariah 3:10

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God’s powerful means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting, to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile.
17 For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in His sight; and from beginning to end it is through trust — as the Tanakh puts it, “But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust.” (Habakkuk 2:4; Proverbs 3:5-7)

 

[Sovereign Grace]

No need to accept what I say I can provide evidence for my claims.
What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org

Actually, that article refutes what you believe concerning this subject.

If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. The worst thing we could do would be to share the gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned. People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the gospel and condemning themselves when they were previously saved because they had never heard the gospel?

 

[Kenny'sID]

at least even just a little bit, heard of the LORD through the ‘grapevine’?

I would say that is what the scripture is referring to...mainly because, for the most part, it is a fact most everyone is aware of Christ/the gospel.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Was the faith of the saints expressed throughout the whole world?


“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:8-9

My wondering is if this is true.

Hebrews 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.

Does everyone already know the Lord, at least even just a little bit, heard of the LORD through the ‘grapevine’?

You have isolated this verse and so it is out of context, leading to a misunderstanding. Start from verse seven. This is about the new Covenant and the renewing of the hearts of the remnant of Israel, in this case, and not of the unbeliever, the whole world. Be blessed.

 

[mlepfitjw]

You have isolated this verse and so it is out of context, leading to a misunderstanding. Start from verse seven. This is about the new Covenant and the renewing of the hearts of the remnant of Israel, in this case, and not of the unbeliever. Be blessed.

I didn’t even realize that. Thanks Maria!

 

[Blade]

Hey Agallagher... faith. Calling those things that be not as though they were. I know a preacher in his old age made youtube videos for like 7 years and was faithful every day. Saying how his message is reaching the world. He always got about 10-50 views. Every message was uplifting.. just wonderful and he never spoke evil of one person. He went home I believe last Saturday.

And the were we are sent out into the whole world. Whole world is not every person.. ever nation.

 

[Marc Perry]

Was the faith of the saints expressed throughout the whole world?


“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:8-9

My wondering is if this is true.

Hebrews 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.

Does everyone already know the Lord, at least even just a little bit, heard of the LORD through the ‘grapevine’?

There are a group called the Universalists who have an interesting take.

"For in all Adam die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

"Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people."

They argue that everyone can, and will, be saved.

"Every knee shall bow" ... and all that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's a problem I always had with Arminianism. Having people save themselves based on their response to a gospel, and then withholding that gospel from most.

Funny. I always thought this way of Calvinism. It simply does not seem fair that God would choose some to be saved and others to not be saved based on no real rhyme or reason. To me: It seems unjust. But some Calvinists have told me that I am thinking with my feelings. But they fail to understand that God has emotions and He is a just, and good God.

 

[disciple Clint]

But, the Church is Israel, not the unbelieving God removed from Israel.

Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel? | GotQuestions.org

 

[disciple Clint]

The full gospel. God preached the gospel to Abraham... remember?

We covered that read the commentary I provide for you and you will see that the Gospel was not preached to Abraham

 

[mlepfitjw]

There are a group called the Universalists who have an interesting take.

"For in all Adam die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

"Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people."

They argue that everyone can, and will, be saved.

"Every knee shall bow" ... and all that.

Oh yeah I know. I’m an total reconciliation believer myself. I believe that all people have beeb saved from their sins. Just not everyone is saved to the kingdom of God because there are people out here I have spoken with and seen in myself.


You know what I use to say, I am God, I choose my destiny, and the afterlife as well. I use to hate Christians, Christianity, God, Jesus...

there is someone I spoken to recently who just reject God completely he told me that religion is not to be talked about with him really...

He is just like me to an extent when I was younger.

We are both saved from our sin of rejecting God, we were both not saved to the kingdom of God in this spiritual deadness because of lack of believing in or on God or the Lord in general.

 

[disciple Clint]

How about this instead?

Paul wrote to the Christians in Rome that “whatever was written in earlier times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope” (Rom. 15:4). He said to Timothy “that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:15). Indeed, the Jews were entrusted with the “oracles of God” (Rom. 3:2) which told of the promised Messiah. The Law at its best served as a “shadow of the good things to come” (Heb. 10:1). The universality of the gospel was indicated as “The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, ‘All the nations will be blessed in you’ ” (Gal. 3:8). It has been said that “the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.” These lectures explore various Old Testament themes, institutions, prophesies, and types that prefigure the redemptive message of the New Testament and show the unfolding of God’s scheme of redemption in Christ. We believe these studies will help lead us all to a greater appreciation of God’s grand scheme of redemption and better equip us to spread the good news of Christ.

The Gospel in the Old Testament

Author: Daniel W. Petty

If you are submitting that to rebut a Bible Commentary that has been reviewed my countless scholars and found accurate, it would not be accepted. And again the subject is salvation through faith, the Gospel that it makes reference to is not the full Gospel story as we know it, if it had been the the Jews would have had no trouble recognizing Jesus for who He was but that is not the case is it. Their expectation of a Messiah was very different from what they saw in Jesus.

 

[disciple Clint]

No it is not. Natural revelation does not tell them that God came as a man, lived 33 years on earth, was nailed on a cross, died and rose three days later from the grave.

And God understands that they were not given access to that information and He is not going to condemn them for something that they had no control over. God is just.

 

[disciple Clint]

Romans 1:18 sets the context for vss 19ff.


For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Those who never heard the gospel do not know that Christ exists. They may know Him as Creator, but not as Savior(I believe Calvin stated it that way). They take what they see and attribute it to some sort of idol.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:22-23]


That is showing they attributed what they saw to some sort of ‘god’, some sort of idol.

So Abraham was righteous and knew nothing of Jesus. Salvation is through Faith, Abraham had faith in the future Messiah but he certainly did not know Him, did he?