Null/please delete

[Dave L]

May I ask how you feel salvation does happen? According to the word anyway. I mean Jesus did have disciples and we were told to preach salvation to the world. As well as salvation is a choice one is to except and make.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. (Always saved in the mind of God). If you must choose to believe, it's because you don't believe.

 

[Dave L]

Well I agree with that scripture but it does not address those who have not received the Gospel and therefore have not rejected it. There were righteous people before there was a Gospel.

Abel had the gospel as did Abraham, and every OT believer.

 

[revybub]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. (Always saved in the mind of God). If you must choose to believe, it's because you don't believe.

You can't believe something till you know about it though and understand it. We aren't born with this knowledge. If that were the case. Then we wouldn't really need the word of God even. We could just go on living. But no we need the word of God. And it is a decision you make. The bible literally covers this. Not to mention we were given the ability to live with free choice. We are not robots.

 

[disciple Clint]

Abel had the gospel as did Abraham, and every OT believer.

And your basis for saying that?

 

[Dave L]

And your basis for saying that?

You need to make an in-depth study of the gospel.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Was the faith of the saints expressed throughout the whole world?


“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:8-9

My wondering is if this is true.

Hebrews 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.

Does everyone already know the Lord, at least even just a little bit, heard of the LORD through the ‘grapevine’?

The "whole world" in Paul's day was not as we know it to be today. Rome was spread far and wide but not as far as China or Oceania. So the gospel was spread to the known world to the Romans at the time Paul made the statement.

 

[revybub]

The "whole world" in Paul's day was not as we know it to be today. Rome was spread far and wide but not as far as China or Oceania. So the gospel was spread to the known world to the Romans at the time Paul made the statement.

Good point. We don't always think of how the world was then when the Bible was written. While we live and believe it is still relevant today. It was still written with how the world was then and not now.

 

[disciple Clint]

You need to make an in-depth study of the gospel.

No you made the claim now you need to provide the basis for that claim.

 

[Dave L]

No you made the claim now you need to provide the basis for that claim.

This is basic Christianity. How God gave the gospel to Abel, Abraham, the OT believers. Paul even says;

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” Galatians 3:8 (KJV 1900)

You need to dig it out for yourself instead of argue.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

I think General Revelation has that covered.

But general revelation does not save.

 

[disciple Clint]

This is basic Christianity. How God gave the gospel to Abel, Abraham, the OT believers. Paul even says;

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.” Galatians 3:8 (KJV 1900)

You need to dig it out for yourself instead of argue.

It is important that you understand what is being said in the Scripture you have quoted. The Gospel was not preached to them as you think but do not take my word here is the commentary.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Preached before the gospel - This translation does not convey quite the idea to us, which the language of Paul, in the original, would to the people to whom he addressed it. We have affixed a technical sense to the phrase "to preach the gospel." It is applied to the formal and public annunciation of the truths of religion, especially the "good news" of a Saviour's birth, and of redemption by his blood. But we are not required by the language used here to suppose that this was done to Abraham, or that "the gospel" was preached to him in the sense in which we all now use that phrase. The expression, in Greek προευηγγελίσατο proeuēngelisato, means merely, "the joyful news was announced beforehand to Abraham;" scil. that in him should all the nations of the earth be blessed. It was implied, indeed, that it would be by the Messiah; but the distinct point of the "good news" was not the "gospel" as we understand it, but it was that somehow through him all the nations of the earth would be made happy. Tyndale has well translated it," Showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham." This translation should have been adopted in our common version.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And the Scripture - The word Scripture refers to the Old Testament; see the note at John 5:39. It is here personified, or spoken of as foreseeing. The idea is, that he by whom the scriptures were inspired, foresaw that. It is agreeable, the meaning is, to the account on the subject in the Old Testament. The Syriac renders this, "Since God foreknew that the Gentiles would be justified by faith, he before announced to Abraham, as the scripture saith, In thee shall all nations be blessed."
Foreseeing - That is, this doctrine is contained in the Old Testament. It was foreseen and predicted that the pagan would be justified by faith, and not by the works of the Law.

 

[Dave L]

It is important that you understand what is being said in the Scripture you have quoted. The Gospel was not preached to them as you think but do not take my word here is the commentary.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Preached before the gospel - This translation does not convey quite the idea to us, which the language of Paul, in the original, would to the people to whom he addressed it. We have affixed a technical sense to the phrase "to preach the gospel." It is applied to the formal and public annunciation of the truths of religion, especially the "good news" of a Saviour's birth, and of redemption by his blood. But we are not required by the language used here to suppose that this was done to Abraham, or that "the gospel" was preached to him in the sense in which we all now use that phrase. The expression, in Greek προευηγγελίσατο proeuēngelisato, means merely, "the joyful news was announced beforehand to Abraham;" scil. that in him should all the nations of the earth be blessed. It was implied, indeed, that it would be by the Messiah; but the distinct point of the "good news" was not the "gospel" as we understand it, but it was that somehow through him all the nations of the earth would be made happy. Tyndale has well translated it," Showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham." This translation should have been adopted in our common version.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
And the Scripture - The word Scripture refers to the Old Testament; see the note at John 5:39. It is here personified, or spoken of as foreseeing. The idea is, that he by whom the scriptures were inspired, foresaw that. It is agreeable, the meaning is, to the account on the subject in the Old Testament. The Syriac renders this, "Since God foreknew that the Gentiles would be justified by faith, he before announced to Abraham, as the scripture saith, In thee shall all nations be blessed."
Foreseeing - That is, this doctrine is contained in the Old Testament. It was foreseen and predicted that the pagan would be justified by faith, and not by the works of the Law.

Do you believe Paul? Can you discern the gospel in God's promise to Eve? How about all of the OT faithful listed in Hebrews?

 

[lsume]

Was the faith of the saints expressed throughout the whole world?


“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:8-9

My wondering is if this is true.

Hebrews 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.

Does everyone already know the Lord, at least even just a little bit, heard of the LORD through the ‘grapevine’?

The visitation by Christ is when the eyes and ears are opened.

 

[mlepfitjw]

The "whole world" in Paul's day was not as we know it to be today. Rome was spread far and wide but not as far as China or Oceania. So the gospel was spread to the known world to the Romans at the time Paul made the statement.

How observant of you, Aussie. I would agree, that the faith the faith of the saints did reach the whole world then.

Everyone else thank you also for your informative information!

 

[mlepfitjw]

I found this at a church one time.

 

[disciple Clint]

But general revelation does not save.

For those people who have never been exposed to the Gospel it is sufficient if they accept that God exists.

 

[Stone-n-Steel]

Hebrews 8:11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, ‘You should know the LORD.’ For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already.

This of course is found in Jer 31:34 “They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

I see this in Pauls writing at Rom 11:26,27. Notice the previous verse.

Rom. 11:25 "For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;"

This prophesy has not been fulfilled.

 

[Dave L]

For those people who have never been exposed to the Gospel it is sufficient if they accept that God exists.

It is not sufficient. And idol only entertains their superstition and plows them deeper into sin.

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” John 3:19 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

This of course is found in Jer 31:34 “They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

I see this in Pauls writing at Rom 11:26,27. Notice the previous verse.

Rom. 11:25 "For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;"

This prophesy has not been fulfilled.

But, the Church is Israel, not the unbelieving God removed from Israel.

 

[disciple Clint]

Do you believe Paul? Can you discern the gospel in God's promise to Eve? How about all of the OT faithful listed in Hebrews?

how about you come up with a specific that you have fact checked with an accepted academic commentary. There are promises and foreshadows of the Messiah throughout the O.T. BUT the Gospel was not revealed to those who died prior to the death of Jesus until he went into Sheol and preached the Gospel. Peter 3:19