Null/ please delete

[fhansen]

No. That's not what Romans 7:6 is saying.

Romans 7:6 says,
“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

It says we have been delivered from the law. Meaning, it's no more.

We are dead to the law by the body of Christ.

For Romans 7:4 says,
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”

Just like a wife is free from the law if her husband be dead.

Romans 7:3 says,
“So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”

The analogy of the wife being dead to the law by her husband's death means that she can remarry is a parallel of believers are dead to the Law of Moses being wherein we marry Jesus Christ and be faithful to Him.

This wife who is dead to the law of being married is also an analogy of the words used in Romans 7:6 that says, “that being dead wherein we are held” is referring to how New covenant believers are now dead to what previous OT believers were once being held by or bound by previously under the Old Covenant (i.e. the keeping of the Old Law).

This is why the next words in Romans 7:6 says,
“that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”

The oldness of the letter is the Old Law within the Torah. We are to serve in the Holy Spirit, and not follow the Old Law of the Torah. For if the Old Law was still in effect, then we would still be told to follow the oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah).

We're free from having to serve by the letter, which is totally ineffectual. I think the main concern is in knowing that God created man with objective moral standards but that man often fails to follow them. As Augustine put it,
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart."

So the emphasis is that the moral law is good-and natural for man-but man is born dead, in rebellion against God the source of his life- and mere eternal obedience of the "publicly revealed" or written law is a crude and futile attempt at being the creatures God created us to be, to attaining our created purpose-our justice-IOW, consistent with the natures we were given even though the law, itself, is correct. Man must be in union with God first of all, a union that Adam had dismissed and rejected for all practical purposes.

The primary difference between the old and new covenants is the difference between legalism, which circumcision provides a perfect example of and backdrop for in arguing against a mechanical fulfilment of the law, and obeying out of love.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We're free from having to serve by the letter, which is totally ineffectual. I think the main concern is in knowing that God created man with objective moral standards but that man often fails to follow them. As Augustine put it,
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart."

So the emphasis is that the moral law is good-and natural for man-but man is born dead, in rebellion against God the source of his life- and mere eternal obedience of the "publicly revealed" or written law is a crude and futile attempt at being the creatures God created us to be, to attaining our created purpose-our justice-IOW, consistent with the natures we were given even though the law, itself, is correct. Man must be in union with God first of all, a union that Adam had dismissed and rejected for all practical purposes.

The primary difference between the old and new covenants is the difference between legalism, which circumcision provides a perfect example of and backdrop for in arguing against a mechanical fulfilment of the law, and obeying out of love.

No. That's not what the Scriptures are teaching. The letter is the Torah or the Old Covenant. The letter is not referring to the commands of Jesus and His followers. If that was the case, then we can simply disobey Jesus and serve ourselves. But it does not work like that. Acts of the Apostles 3:23 (Which many today ignore) is saying that every soul who does not hear that prophet shall be destroyed. That prophet is Jesus Christ. Again, this warning is repeated to us in Matthew 7:26-27. It says anyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. For if we do not receive the words of Jesus Christ, those very words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). For those in the kingdom who justify sin will be cast out into the furnace of fire by Christ's angels (See: Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[fhansen]

No. That's not what the Scriptures are teaching. The letter is the Torah or the Old Covenant. The letter is not referring to the commands of Jesus and His followers. If that was the case, then we can simply disobey Jesus and serve ourselves.

But I didn't say that. I basically said that, regardless of which commands are in effect, the only way to properly fulfill them is by the Spirit, by the love that God works in us to put it another way. And aren't we still enjoined to obey the Law since the Greatest Commandments, which form the basis of and sum up the Law and the Prophets, are still in effect? I'm interested in but still trying to understand your perspective. I mean, the traditional position is that understanding something by the letter is distinguishable from understanding it's original intent, the spirit by which it was written.

 

[eleos1954]

Okay, thank you all for your responses.

Was Jesus able to abolish the Old Testament laws, when he died on the cross?

If Jesus was able to abolish the laws, by Himself following them perfectly, what is left for us as Christians to do?

Some people follow certain religions that they try to follow the Old Testament ways, to a T.

Though we aren’t able to hold them fully.

Why do people follow these religious ways and teachings for?

It was the cerimonial/sacrificial laws that were abolished ... not the 10.

The ceremonial law.

When Christ died, He fulfilled the prophetic symbolism of the sacrificial system. Type met antitype, and the ceremonial law came to an end. Centuries earlier Daniel had predicted that the death of the Messiah would "bring an end to sacrifice and offering" (Dan. 9:27). When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was supernaturally torn in two from top to bottom (Matt. 27:51), indicating the end of the spiritual significance of the Temple services.

Although the ceremonial law filled a vital role before the death of Christ, it was deficient in many ways, being only "a shadow of the good things to come" (Heb. 10:1). It served a temporary purpose and was imposed on God's people until the coming of "the time of reformation" (Heb 9:10; Gal 3:19)—until the time when Christ died as the true Lamb of God.

At the death of Christ the jurisdiction of ceremonial law came to an end. His atoning sacrifice provided forgiveness for all sins. This act "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col. 2:14; Deut. 31:26). Then it was no longer necessary to perform the elaborate ceremonies that were not, in any case, able to take away sins or purify the conscience (Heb. 10:4; 9:9, 14). No more worries about the ceremonial laws, with their complex requirements regarding food and drink offerings, celebrations of various festivals (Passover, Pentecost, etc.), new moons, or ceremonial sabbaths (Col. 2:16; Heb. 9:10), which were only a "shadow of things to come" (Col. 2:17).

With Jesus' death, believers no longer had any need to deal with shadows—reflections of the reality in Christ. Now they could approach the Saviour Himself directly, for the "substance is of Christ" (Col. 2:17).

As interpreted by the Jews, the ceremonial law had become a barrier between them and other nations. It had become a great obstacle to their mission to enlighten the world with the glory of God. Christ's death abolished this "law of commandments contained in ordinances," breaking down "the middle wall of division" between Gentiles and Jews so as to create one new family of believers reconciled into "one body through the cross" (Eph. 2:14-16).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But I didn't say that. I basically said that, regardless of which commands are in effect, the only way to properly fulfill them is by the Spirit, by the love that God works in us to put it another way. And aren't we still enjoined to obey the Law since the Greatest Commandments, which form the basis of and sum up the Law and the Prophets, are still in effect? I'm interested in but still trying to understand your perspective. I mean, the traditional position is that understanding something by the letter is distinguishable from understanding it's original intent, the spirit by which it was written.

You are misinterpreting 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).​

This verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in a literal way over some some overly spiritualistic interpretation (i.e. read the Bible as metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is in reference to the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context is referring to the two different ways each of these covenants began and it's not talking about the letter in general like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone, and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrong doing, but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit is not going to guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 7:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”​

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way and if you do it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sin or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in to loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. In fact, obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partiall fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our own way of thinking in not in what God's Word says.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It was the cerimonial/sacrificial laws that were abolished ... not the 10.

The ceremonial law.

When Christ died, He fulfilled the prophetic symbolism of the sacrificial system. Type met antitype, and the ceremonial law came to an end. Centuries earlier Daniel had predicted that the death of the Messiah would "bring an end to sacrifice and offering" (Dan. 9:27). When Jesus died, the veil of the temple was supernaturally torn in two from top to bottom (Matt. 27:51), indicating the end of the spiritual significance of the Temple services.

Although the ceremonial law filled a vital role before the death of Christ, it was deficient in many ways, being only "a shadow of the good things to come" (Heb. 10:1). It served a temporary purpose and was imposed on God's people until the coming of "the time of reformation" (Heb 9:10; Gal 3:19)—until the time when Christ died as the true Lamb of God.

At the death of Christ the jurisdiction of ceremonial law came to an end. His atoning sacrifice provided forgiveness for all sins. This act "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross" (Col. 2:14; Deut. 31:26). Then it was no longer necessary to perform the elaborate ceremonies that were not, in any case, able to take away sins or purify the conscience (Heb. 10:4; 9:9, 14). No more worries about the ceremonial laws, with their complex requirements regarding food and drink offerings, celebrations of various festivals (Passover, Pentecost, etc.), new moons, or ceremonial sabbaths (Col. 2:16; Heb. 9:10), which were only a "shadow of things to come" (Col. 2:17).

With Jesus' death, believers no longer had any need to deal with shadows—reflections of the reality in Christ. Now they could approach the Saviour Himself directly, for the "substance is of Christ" (Col. 2:17).

As interpreted by the Jews, the ceremonial law had become a barrier between them and other nations. It had become a great obstacle to their mission to enlighten the world with the glory of God. Christ's death abolished this "law of commandments contained in ordinances," breaking down "the middle wall of division" between Gentiles and Jews so as to create one new family of believers reconciled into "one body through the cross" (Eph. 2:14-16).

Colossians 2 says,

“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:14).​

We learn in the OT that the weekly Sabbath is inferred as being an ordinance in

Isaiah 58.

“Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God...” (Isaiah 58:2).​

“If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight,...” (Isaiah 58:13).
​

Ceremony
(Definition):

a formal act or series of acts prescribed by ritual, protocol, or convention.​

Source:
Definition of CEREMONY

Ceremony is any kind of ceremony that you observe. The Saturday Sabbath is a ceremony or ritual that a person observes in honor of God resting on the 7th day. It also is a shadow or type that pointed ahead to the rest we have in Christ in the New Covenant. The weekly Sabbath is no longer binding because:

(a) Colossians 2:16 says we are not let others judge us in regards to sabbaths (Note: This would include the Saturday Sabbath because it is among the list of sabbaths mentioned in Scripture).
(b) Romans 14:5 teaches that some treat all days alike (and Paul does not condemn them).
(c) No Sabbath commands are given in the New Testament.
(d) The breaking of the Sabbath command as being a sin is not listed alongside murder, adultery, theft, idolatry, drunkenness, etc. by the list of sins mentioned by Paul and John.

Conclusion:

The Saturday Sabbath command is a ceremonial law that has not carried over into the New Testament. Yes, the moral laws have carried over like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.; But none of the ceremonial laws or judicial laws from the OT have carried over into the New Covenant. Sabbath keepers just love to keep rituals, and so they misread and or change Scripture to fit their practices.

​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I remember a guy in a bible study one time shouting in anger that all we have to keep is the 10 commandments. I could not help but to covertly roll my eyes and secretly shake my head. It made me wonder if he even studied the New Testament on his own at all. Does he not realize that the commands are far different than the ones in the Old Testament? They are surely are not even remotely the same. Yet, this thought is common to new believers or those who did not truly study His Word deeply with God's help. When I was a new believer, I used to think we had to keep all of the Old Laws and the New Laws. But that was because I did not study His Word yet.

For some I believe it is ignorance. They simply did not do the study and ask for the understanding on His Word from God. Others unfortunately change what God's Word says to fit what they want to be true. It comes down to doing what God's Word plainly says. If a person is not aligning with what His Word says, they are not seeking God's will, but they are seeking their own will.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But I didn't say that. I basically said that, regardless of which commands are in effect, the only way to properly fulfill them is by the Spirit, by the love that God works in us to put it another way. And aren't we still enjoined to obey the Law since the Greatest Commandments, which form the basis of and sum up the Law and the Prophets, are still in effect? I'm interested in but still trying to understand your perspective. I mean, the traditional position is that understanding something by the letter is distinguishable from understanding it's original intent, the spirit by which it was written.

I agree that we have to have the Holy Spirit, and we are to love God and love others as a part of the New Covenant. Where we disagree is on two points.

#1. I respectfully disagree with your statment that says that the Old Law is still in effect (See my points below).
#2. While I agree that we can only gain the original intent and meaning of Scripture by the Holy Spirit, which is confirmed by the leading of the Spirit by showing the context, I respectfully disagree with with your implied use of 2 Corinthians 3:6. 2 Corinthians 3:6 is not making this point. When 2 Corinthians 3:6 speaks of the “letter” it is referring to the whole of package deal of the Law of Moses (the 613), and it is not referring to the commands of Jesus and His followers.​

Why is the Old Law no more?

Reason #1 - Scripture testifies that the Old Law is no more in many places.
Here are the list of verses again that tell us this truth (simply click on the following spoiler button):

Spoiler

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
​

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).​

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).​

Reason #2. - It's physically impossible to obey both covenants (Both the OT and the NT). A quick comparison between the commands of Jesus and the Old Law in which He refers to at the sermon on the mount shows this fact. Click on the following spoiler button to check out the verse comparisons.

Spoiler

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).

Most Popular Common Objections Explained:

Matthew 5:17-19 is a common objection to the Old Law being no more.

Here is what Matthew 5:17-19 says,

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19).​

What is this passage saying? Well, if I took an apple seed, and a hammer, and I smashed the apple seed with the hammer, I would be destroying that apple seed. But if the apple seed was healthy, and I planted that apple seed into the ground, and took care of that seed, and the conditions were right, it would grow into an apple tree. The apple seed growing into being an apple tree would have fulfilled its intended purpose. The apple seed is not destroyed but it changed or turned into being in apple tree.

The same is true with God's laws. They were not outright destroyed altogether, but they changed and grew into far superior laws with the giving of the commands by Jesus and His followers in the New Covenant or New Testament.

Second, many Christians do not understand the word “law” that Jesus referred to in Matthew 5:18 about how that not one jot or tittle shall pass until heaven and earth shall pass away until all be fulfilled. What they fail to understand is that Jesus was referring to the word “law,” as being: “the law, or the prophets” in Matthew 5:17 (Which is the context). Meaning: the law is a package deal with the prophets and their fulfillment. In other words, it is true that heaven and earth will not pass away until the law AND (OR) the prophets are fulfilled. So when the OT prophecy of the end times and Christ's return happens, then this Earth will pass away. But the Old Law passed away officially when Christ died upon the cross. The Law portion of the law and the prophets has been fulfilled but the prophets portion of the Law and the Prophets has not been fulfilled yet.

If you were to go to BlueLetterBible, and search the keywords,
“the law and the prophets” you will discover 6 direct references and several (similar) non-direct references. You can see such search results at this link here:

Blue Letter Bible search - the law and the prophets.

If you looked at the results, you would see Luke 16:16. This verse says:

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” (Luke 16:16).
​

Matthew 11:13 says,

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” (Matthew 11:13).​

Jesus offered a new way that was different than the Law and the prophets that were until John the baptist. Jesus preached the kingdom of God instead. Jesus said to turn the other cheek instead of an eye for an eye. Jesus said to not make any oaths at all vs. making oaths according to the Old Law. Jesus said we are to pray, do good, and love our enemies vs. killing or wiping out the surrounding enemy nations by God's command in the Old Testament. Jesus did not appear to be in acceptance any longer on the Law on stoning another based on adultery. For he prevented the woman caught in act of adultery forgiveness instead of her being stoned for her sin. Things have changed in the Law. This is what Hebrews 7:12 plainly says.

 

[fhansen]

I agree that we have to have the Holy Spirit, and we are to love God and love others as a part of the New Covenant. Where we disagree is on two points.

#1. I respectfully disagree with your statment that says that the Old Law is still in effect (See my points below).
#2. While I agree that we can only gain the original intent and meaning of Scripture by the Holy Spirit, which is confirmed by the leading of the Spirit by showing the context, I respectfully disagree with with your implied use of 2 Corinthians 3:6. 2 Corinthians 3:6 is not making this point. When 2 Corinthians 3:6 speaks of the “letter” it is referring to the whole of package deal of the Law of Moses (the 613), and it is not referring to the commands of Jesus and His followers.​

Why is the Old Law no more?

Reason #1 - Scripture testifies that the Old Law is no more in many places.
Here are the list of verses again that tell us this truth (simply click on the following spoiler button):

Spoiler

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
​

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).​

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).​

Reason #2. - It's physically impossible to obey both covenants (Both the OT and the NT). A quick comparison between the commands of Jesus and the Old Law in which He refers to at the sermon on the mount shows this fact. Click on the following spoiler button to check out the verse comparisons.

Spoiler

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).

Most Popular Common Objections Explained:

Matthew 5:17-19 is a common objection to the Old Law being no more.

Here is what Matthew 5:17-19 says,

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:17-19).​

What is this passage saying? Well, if I took an apple seed, and a hammer, and I smashed the apple seed with the hammer, I would be destroying that apple seed. But if the apple seed was healthy, and I planted that apple seed into the ground, and took care of that seed, and the conditions were right, it would grow into an apple tree. The apple seed growing into being an apple tree would have fulfilled its intended purpose. The apple seed is not destroyed but it changed or turned into being in apple tree.

The same is true with God's laws. They were not outright destroyed altogether, but they changed and grew into far superior laws with the giving of the commands by Jesus and His followers in the New Covenant or New Testament.

Second, many Christians do not understand the word “law” that Jesus referred to in Matthew 5:18 about how that not one jot or tittle shall pass until heaven and earth shall pass away until all be fulfilled. What they fail to understand is that Jesus was referring to the word “law,” as being: “the law, or the prophets” in Matthew 5:17 (Which is the context). Meaning: the law is a package deal with the prophets and their fulfillment. In other words, it is true that heaven and earth will not pass away until the law AND (OR) the prophets are fulfilled. So when the OT prophecy of the end times and Christ's return happens, then this Earth will pass away. But the Old Law passed away officially when Christ died upon the cross. The Law portion of the law and the prophets has been fulfilled but the prophets portion of the Law and the Prophets has not been fulfilled yet.

If you were to go to BlueLetterBible, and search the keywords,
“the law and the prophets” you will discover 6 direct references and several (similar) non-direct references. You can see such search results at this link here:

Blue Letter Bible search - the law and the prophets.

If you looked at the results, you would see Luke 16:16. This verse says:

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” (Luke 16:16).
​

Matthew 11:13 says,

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” (Matthew 11:13).​

Jesus offered a new way that was different than the Law and the prophets that were until John the baptist. Jesus preached the kingdom of God instead. Jesus said to turn the other cheek instead of an eye for an eye. Jesus said to not make any oaths at all vs. making oaths according to the Old Law. Jesus said we are to pray, do good, and love our enemies vs. killing or wiping out the surrounding enemy nations by God's command in the Old Testament. Jesus did not appear to be in acceptance any longer on the Law on stoning another based on adultery. For he prevented the woman caught in act of adultery forgiveness instead of her being stoned for her sin. Things have changed in the Law. This is what Hebrews 7:12 plainly says.

I think I understand your perspective better now. The old law in the Torah is the letter while the new law revealed in the New Testament, which may also include some of the old, is of the spirit. And that man must fulfill this new law; man is still obligated to righteousness under the New Covenant, which I certainly agree with in any case.

 

[Der Alte]

Colossians 2 says,

“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (Colossians 2:14).​

We learn in the OT that the weekly Sabbath is inferred as being an ordinance in
Isaiah 58.

“Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God...” (Isaiah 58:2).
“If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight,...” (Isaiah 58:13).​

Ceremony
(Definition):

a formal act or series of acts prescribed by ritual, protocol, or convention.​

Source:
Definition of CEREMONY
Ceremony is any kind of ceremony that you observe. The Saturday Sabbath is a ceremony or ritual that a person observes in honor of God resting on the 7th day. It also is a shadow or type that pointed ahead to the rest we have in Christ in the New Covenant. The weekly Sabbath is no longer binding because:
(a) Colossians 2:16 says we are not let others judge us in regards to sabbaths (Note: This would include the Saturday Sabbath because it is among the list of sabbaths mentioned in Scripture).
(b) Romans 14:5 teaches that some treat all days alike (and Paul does not condemn them).
(c) No Sabbath commands are given in the New Testament.
(d) The breaking of the Sabbath command as being a sin is not listed alongside murder, adultery, theft, idolatry, drunkenness, etc. by the list of sins mentioned by Paul and John.
Conclusion:
The Saturday Sabbath command is a ceremonial law that has not carried over into the New Testament. Yes, the moral laws have carried over like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.; But none of the ceremonial laws or judicial laws from the OT have carried over into the New Covenant. Sabbath keepers just love to keep rituals, and so they misread and or change Scripture to fit their practices.

Also the Sabbath was given specifically to the descendants of Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.​

Others can choose to follow the law.

Galatians 5:2-3
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.​

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think I understand your perspective better now. The old law in the Torah is the letter while the new law revealed in the New Testament, which may also include some of the old, is of the spirit. And that man must fulfill this new law; man is still obligated to righteousness under the New Covenant, which I certainly agree with in any case.

Only the Moral Law (To do by nature what is good without a specific law telling you to do so; Like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.) has carried over from the Old Covenant. None of the ceremonial laws or judicial laws have carried on over into the New Testament. So things like the Saturday Sabbath, Passover, dietary laws, circumcision, animal sacrifices, stoning those who break certain aspects of the Law has ended. Technically speaking the whole of the Old Covenant and or the 613 Laws of Moses as a package deal or contract as a whole is no more. While the Moral has been repeated, the Old is not the contract or covenant we look to primarily to obey God. We are under a New Covenant, with New Commands. We are New Covenant believers. But there are believers who wish to be under the Law and keep certain aspects of the Old Law that is no more.

 

[timothyu]

Jesus didn't teach or do anything that wasn't in what we call the OT.

 

[d taylor]

The Law will be put in place at the Millennium reign. That will be the rule The Messiah uses to rule the earth during the Millennium