Post-Trib Only Nuclear Apocalypse ?!

Armoured · Feb 10, 2016

stephen583 said:
Might want to give Revelation 13:13 a read, where it says there will be a "great sign" where "fire comes down from the heaven on earth in the sight of men". Seems to me that's a pretty accurate description of the way a thermo nuclear attack would be seen by the world. Whereas a "solar flare" such as you've described would be an "invisible" radiation event. It would definitely effect crops, injure people and disrupt communications worldwide, but it would be an unseen force, unlike the spectacle of a nuclear missile attack.

Solar flares are invisible now?

stephen583 · Feb 11, 2016

Armoured said:
Solar flares are invisible now?

Yes. Unless you have COMIC BOOK SUPERPOWERS and you can see energy in the Ultra Violet, X-Ray, Gamma Wave and Radio Wave spectrums.. Yes. Solar Flare radiation is "imperceptible" to the human eye. Solar flares are detected and measured by special scientific "instrumentation". You are aware you can "google" this, aren't you ?!

stephen583 · Feb 11, 2016

Armoured said:
Maybe you'd do well to listen to people who have actually been trained by the military on this stuff.

The Southern Hemisphere WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT BE SAFE from the effects of Nuclear Fallout during a full scale Nuclear War. It would have to be a very limited exchange, in order for that to be even close to being the truth. We're not talking about a failed nuclear reactor incident like Chernobyl, trade winds, or the jet stream in the upper atmosphere. Nuclear bombs of 10 kilotons and larger will blast radioactive material into the extreme upper STRATOSPHERE ! The Earth will be covered by a shroud of atmospheric debris that will darken the sky globally, causing a condition known as "Nuclear Winter", (a twilight condition at noon, that may last for months and even years). Hundreds of millions of people in the Southern Hemisphere will be killed "indirectly" by radioactive poisoning caused by fallout. People in Antarctica will even be exposed to increased radioactivity.

Lower atmospheric fallout, associated with direct proximity to large 10 kiloton plus detonations will be much heavier and many more times deadly. This kind of regional fallout and exposure, (keep in mind we're talking potentially about thousands of miles, not hundreds), will be determined largely by prevailing wind patterns, (jet stream and trade winds), and weather in the atmosphere (black rain, or snow), as well as topographical considerations, (like mountain ranges, elevation, valleys, canyons and coastal lines).

Personally, based on existing civil defense estimates, I'm not planning on sticking my head above ground for at least 60 to 90 days after a nuclear attack for anything except for drinking water, and even then I'll be protecting myself with appropriate recommended clothing and full decontamination procedures in effect.

If you can't find a copy of "Nuclear Armageddon" in print.. I suggest you "google", "Radioactive Fallout Globally from Nuclear War", and "Radioactive Fallout, Civil Defense Procedures".

stephen583 · Feb 11, 2016

Revelation 16:8 does describe a judgment where God will pour out his wrath upon the sun and men will be scorched with fierce heat, or fire. This is undoubtedly the great "Solar Flare" apocalyptic event many eschatologists refer to. However, the events of Revelation 13:13, in which (he) the Antichrist calls down "fire from heaven, in the sight of men"
is not the same event as Revelation 16:8. That has never been suggested by any Bible scholar at any time.

The Judgment (or Wrath of God) described by Revelation 16:8 is in response to the event described in Revelation 13:13 in which mankind (first) destroys the Earth, (Revelation 11:18). God does not pour out His Wrath on mankind without cause or justifiable reason.

vinsight4u · Feb 12, 2016

stephen583 · Feb 12, 2016

vinsight4u said:
God's wrath begins, He has not been the one destroying the earth.
The nations are to blame for the damage.

Exactly as I said. Many Christians believe God is going to destroy the Earth during the Second Half of Tribulations and kill everyone else who remains alive. That's absolutely nonsense. God is going to SAVE the Earth, not destroy it. As you pointed out, a new heaven and a new Earth will follow the Judgment, (2 peter 3:13). This isn't just "opinion", it's stated as a biblical "fact" in Scripture. Therefore, any teaching that "contradicts" this fact, is by definition "false doctrine".

The Scripture says the Earth itself is "reserved unto fire" against the day of Judgment, (2 Peter 3:7). I think of that "fire" as what happens when someone pulls the trigger on a gun. The Earth will become the instrument of God's Judgment. The Earth is designed in such a way, it is "infinitely" capable of defending itself against any threat, even man himself.

If you think otherwise, just read up on the destructive power of the "Super Caldera" under Yellowstone National Park and what will happen when that erupts. It contains enough magma to fill the Grand Canyon eleven times. The blast will kill everything West of the Mississippi River instantly, and everything East of the Mississippi will be dead in a week.

Recently, scientists have learned the magma chamber beneath Yellowstone is actually many times greater in size than previously believed, and it's destructive power would be increased "thousands" of times in magnitude byond what has been previously predicted. That power alone "dwarfs" all the nuclear weapons possessed by mankind.

The Earth belongs to God, not man. We are merely stewards of the Earth, (Genesis 2:15). As such our job is to "guard and protect" the Earth, not to just exploit or destroy it. Mankind was never given leave or permission to destroy what God created.

vinsight4u · Feb 12, 2016

stephen583 · Feb 21, 2016

"MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF LUXEMBOURG, JEAN ASSELBORN, SAID NATO ALLIES WILL NOT SUPPORT TURKEY IN THE EVENT OF A CONFLICT WITH RUSSIA" (REUTER'S NEWS SERVICE, ASSOC. PRESS RELEASE, FEBRUARY 19, 2016).

If you're making preparations for WWIII and the Nuclear Apocalypse, you might just want to accelerate your plans a little bit more.

stephen583 · Feb 22, 2016

"NORTH KOREA'S LEADER KIM JONG UN, APPOINTS 4 STAR GENERAL "RI MONG SU" (HEAD OF NORTH KOREA'S BALLISTIC MISSILE PROGRAM) AS NEW ARMY GENERAL CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE PRK. ACCORDING TO SOUTH KOREAN INTELLIGENCE, THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF "RI MONG SU" (NOT SEEN SINCE JANUARY) HAS BEEN EXECUTED BY KIM JONG UN, IN AN APPARANT PURGE". (ASSOC. PRESS RELEASE, FEB. 21, 2016).

The message by North Korea's leader Kim Jong Un is clear and unequivocal. If the U.N. and the United States continues pushing for stronger sanctions against North Korea because of the North's recent violation of the "Ban on Nuclear Weapon Testing" and the North's ballistic missile tests, Kim Jong Un has taken steps to ensure that North Korea's military will retaliate. In other words;

WELCOME TO THE APOCALYPSE !

stephen583 · Feb 22, 2016

Every day. New and more drastic indications of the world's inevitable march towards a Third World War and a Thermo Nuclear Conflict appear in the newspapers and on the internet. Scoffers and Nay Sayers laugh and post their skeptical opinions. Humor and skepticism, isn't going to prove to be a very effective defense against thermo nuclear weapons.

stephen583 · Feb 23, 2016

"RUSSIA EMPLOYS NEW ELECTRO-0OPTICAL SENSORS ON TU-154 SURVELILLANCE AIRCRAFT OVERFLYING EUROPE (AND SOON U.S.) TERRITORY. ACCORDING TO SENIOR MILITARY EXPERTS, THIS NEW SURVEILLANCE LEAVES IMPORTANT INFRASTRUCTURE VUNERABLE TO TARGETING BY NEW LONGE RANGE RUSSIAN CRUISE MISSILES"
(THE NEW YORK TIMES, FEB. 22, 2016).

"RECENT SATELLITE SURVEILLANCE SHOWS CHINA HAS ENSTALLED LONG RANGE HIGH FREQUENCY RADAR INSTALLATIONS ON THE ARTIFICIAL ISLANDS CONSTRUCTED ON CORAL REEFS IN SOUTH CHINA SEA. THE CHINESE HAVE ALSO INSTALLED SURFACE TO AIR MISSILE BATTERIES ON THE PARACEL ISLANDS JUST NORTH WEST OF ITS' NEWLY CONSTRUCTED ARTIFICIAL ISLAND BASES. LATER THIS WEEK U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY WILL MEET WITH CHINA'S FOREIGN MINISTER TO DISCUSS CHINA'S GROWING MILITARY ASSERTION OVER THE INTERNATIONAL WATERS OF THE SOUTH CHINA SEA, THROUGH WHICH $5 TRILLION DOLLARS IN TRADE PASS ANNUALLY"

(MSNBC, RUETERS NEWS SERVICE FEB. 23, 2016).

Again. You might want to "expedite" those preparations to survive the coming "thermo-nuclear" holocaust. If you have reservations about discussing such matters openly, I understand completely, and I am more than happy to answer your questions in a "Personal Message" (PM). Survival Plans ? Strategies ? Timelines ? Equipment ? Ect.

stephen583 · Feb 26, 2016

"Feb. 23, 2016 Army Chief of Staff Mark Milley testifies to the Senate Russia is No. 1 threat to the United States" (CNN NEWS).

"United States sends a message with test/launch of Minuteman 3 missile on Thursday"
(MSNBC NEWS, February 25, 2016. Associated Press).

"NATO and U.S. military officials snub Armed Forces Day celebration at Russian embassy in Washington. According to those who attended, also conspicuously absent this year was the traditional playing of the "Star Spangled Banner" along with the Russian National Anthem"
(CNN NEWS, Reuters News Service).

stephen583 · Feb 26, 2016

Remember, access to clean water is going to be absolutely critical to your short and long term survival. You can live 30 or 40 days without food, but you won't last four or five days without water. After three days without it, you lose your ability to make rational decisions. Headache is the first sign of dehydration. If you have little drinking water, eat as little as possible. Digestion uses up water your body can not spare, if you aren't able to replace it. If you pinch your skin, and it doesn't lay back down flat immediately, but stays pinched, you are dehydrated.

The military allows for 5 gallons of water per day per person. That covers all hydration, cooking and hygiene requirements for one person. Travelling at a steady pace, in mild temperatures (bushwhacking) across unbroken terrain and wearing a 40 lb. backpack, you'll easily consume a gallon of water per day. That's why it is important to hydrate (drink plenty of water), the night before you begin a long hike.

Sedentary (just sitting around camp), you'll consume a quarter gallon each day. So anytime you locate safe drinking water, you should hydrate, as well as fill all your water containers before returning to camp. This is about the minimum amount of water rationing you can survive on for the long term. You won't feel great, but you won't die either. You should collect rain water whenever you can do so safely. Carrying water any distance burns up lots of calories. Collecting it at your camp site, saves calories. Good Luck and God Bless.

keras · Feb 26, 2016

stephen583 said:
Might want to give Revelation 13:13 a read, where it says there will be a "great sign" where "fire comes down from the heaven on earth in the sight of men". Seems to me that's a pretty accurate description of the way a thermo nuclear attack would be seen by the world. Whereas a "solar flare" such as you've described would be an "invisible" radiation event. It would definitely effect crops, injure people and disrupt communications worldwide, but it would be an unseen force, unlike the spectacle of a nuclear missile attack.

What I go by is the vivid descriptions given to us thru the Bible prophets. They tell of a worldwide devastation, far more than a nuke exchange in the Northern Hemisphere.
Rev 13:13 has nothing to do with the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
You go by what we know about CMEs, now they just cause radio interference and auroras. But in 1859 the Carrington event caused the early telegraph system to fail, plus other known effects. The one the Lord will use on His Day of vengeance and wrath, will be unprecedented as Joel 2:2b says: the like has never been known......
That everyone will know what is coming, will be perfectly evident from how the sun will be darkened by the approaching mass of superheated hydrogen and the moon will reflect bright red. People will be terrified and scramble to hide. Isaiah 2:21, Revelation 6:15-16

stephen583 · Feb 27, 2016

I understand completely the Bible prophesies the sun will be one of the weapons God uses to bring judgment upon the world. A Massive Coronal Ejection impacting the Earth is a virtual certainty. The effects will be catastrophic. Probably even worse than those of a "limited" nuclear war. The effects of ultra violet radiation will of course be less deadly at sea level and below than at altitude, say above 9,000 feet. Retreat into canyons may also offer somewhat better protection from UV radiation. However, that isn't saying very much.

Nevertheless, such considerations should figure into anyone's overall survival strategy and planning. You'll need eye protection, full clothing from head to foot, gloves, and the ability to operate safely at night. I mentioned a good set of wide lens light gathering binoculars earlier in the thread. Get a pair.

keras · Feb 27, 2016

My overall survival strategy is an insulated container, miles inland, to shelter in for one day. After that I trust the Lord for His guidance and expect to travel to and live in the holy Land.
Some effects of this forthcoming CME:

Joel 1:15 The day is near, the Day of the Lord it comes as a mighty destruction from Almighty God. [not a nuke war]

Joel 2:1-5 Blow the trumpet in Israel, sound the alarm in Jerusalem. Let all who live in the Land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming – it is close at hand. A Day of darkness and clouds. Like the dawn, an innumerable host comes across the land, such as never was and will never be again. A fire goes before them, leaving wasteland behind. With a great noise they leap mountains and consume things to stubble.
Joel 2:6-11 At the sight of them, all the nations are in anguish. They march in line, none swerving against any defence. They rush upon cities and enter houses through the windows. The earth quakes and the sky is darkened. The Lord thunders at the head of His army, beyond number are those who obey His command. The Day of the Lord is great and dreadful, who can endure it?
Joel 1:6-12 & 19-20 this invading host destroys trees and crops. Fire has burnt the pastures and trees. All the streams have dried up.

The Day of the Lord, as described by Joel is not the judgement at the Return of Jesus or the Great White Throne judgement. It is, therefore an event before then, also prophesied in Isaiah 2:12-21, Rev. 6:12-17, Ezekiel 7:2-9 and elsewhere.

Joel uses the metaphor of an army to describe how this destruction moves across the earth as it rotates- ‘like the dawn’. As countries turn to face the sun, the effects of a coronal mass ejection- sunstrike will hit them. Initially, it will strike the earth as a light flash, EMP [Isaiah 30:26a] within 8 minutes, then the highly charged cosmic particles arrive about 24 hours later, causing immense destruction and deaths. Fires and volcanic eruptions will result in smoke and ash clouds, covering the sky. Isaiah 29:5-6, Psalm 18:7-15, Jeremiah 4:23-28

Judah [the current State of Israel] is affected- Hosea 8:14, Eze. 20:45-48, Isa 4:3-4.

Then - the Lord’s enemies: Isa 22:5-14, Psalm 83:14-18, Isa 63:1-6 and many others.

Deuteronomy 32:34-35 says how He will act when His enemies ‘foot will slip”. That is they make a mistake. That mistake will be their instigating an attack against Israel.

Malachi 4:1-2 Surely the day of the Lord is coming, it will burn like a furnace. All the evildoers will be as stubble, they will be burned up. But for you, who revere My Name, righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. You will rejoice and prevail over the wicked on the day that I act against them. Isaiah 26:11 & 20-21.

THEN the many prophecies that describe the return of all true believers into the Promised Land will come to pass. This second exodus of His people will fulfil the promises that God made to the Patriarchs and they will, at last be a people that will be a ‘light to the nations’. They will prepare themselves and the world for the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel 35:11-30, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Deuteronomy 30:1-10, Zechariah 10:6-12, Isa 46:27-28, Ezekiel 39:25-29, Zephaniah 10:6-12

That Jesus is not yet present at this time, is clear from the many verses saying: ‘Youwill know that I am the Lord, when... And how it ‘will be as in the days of Egypt’.
Ezekiel 14:6-11, Ezekiel 39:22, Joel 2:27, Isaiah 41:20. Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged

stephen583 · Feb 28, 2016

I don't know how long a solar flare of unprecedented size would last. During the late 1980's there was period of increased solar flare activity that occurred and each incident involved a period of several weeks. Our 800 mega hertz. county wide radio net was down for several hours at a time. On one occasion, the opposite took place. Our radio signal was bounced off the super charged ionosphere and we were talking to the New York City Fire Department from New Orleans, Louisiana. Our 800 mega hertz communications was transformed into a short wave radio for several minutes, but local units couldn't communicate.

I don't know how strong the EMP from a mega solar flare would be, but it might take out unprotected electronic devices, and it would probably take out anything computerized. Of course, an EMP from a high altitude nuclear detonation will accomplish the same thing. So either way, you can count on being isolated from any emergency broadcast, unless you take special precautions to store and shield your communications equipment whenever it is not being used. That would be a wise precaution.

By the way, when I mentioned "eye" protection, I was talking about "full goggles", (like welders wear) not sports wear eye shades that allow UV rays to get in through the sides. You'll want several pair in your supplies. Although keras doesn't have bears or mountain lions in New Zealand, people in America retreating into the wilderness should be aware the behavior of large predatory animals is going to be radically effected by environmental pressure and especially injury. I hate to think what a half blind starving brown bear or mountain lion would do to an unwary human. Then of course, there is also the danger other human beings will pose. Some people will become quite desperate and dangerous.

Personally. I don't plan on being within six or eight miles of the nearest forestry road, so anybody who reaches my camp will probably be crawling by that time and half dead. That will put me into direct contact with some of the local wildlife though. Fortunately, I've had some experience camping around mountain lions and big bears. If anyone is interested, I can give you all the precautionary measures recommended by the U.S. Forestry Department for wilderness camping in bear country.

keras · Feb 28, 2016

stephen583 said:
I don't know how long a solar flare of unprecedented size would last.

Bible prophecy tells us how long this forthcoming CME will affect the earth before passing on into outer space. ALL the prophesies say it will be one literal Day, one revolution of the earth. Psalms 50:1-6, Isaiah 13-13
Exactly as all CME's do. And your idea of its effects are way off.
We in NZ, won't see the initial flash, it being nighttime for us and also most of the USA too, when it happens. Zephaniah 2:4

stephen583 · Feb 29, 2016

keras said:
What I go by is the vivid descriptions given to us thru the Bible prophets.

So do I keras. The Scripture specifically mentions the word "War" in Matthew 24:6, and the Forth Horseman of the Apocalypse is going to take a "sword to a quarter of the earth" in Revelation 6:8. In Revelation 18:10,17 the destruction of Babylon is such, that even ship captains will stand far off for fear of her torment. That certainly sounds like the fear of radioactive fallout to me. There are also descriptions of cities in Egypt (posted earlier in this thread), that will be "uninhabitable" for forty years, and Damascus will be uninhabitable even for wild beasts and scavengers. Conventional Warfare simply doesn't explain this kind of long term destruction. Neither does a solar flare, (CME). For me, there is no question Nuclear Warfare is going to be the culprit responsible for much of this destruction, not acts of God, as some suggest.

In Joel 2:3 where the invasion of Israel is described, it says about the enemy attack, "the land before them shall be like the Garden of Eden, and behind them a desolate wilderness, and nothing shall escape them". Other descriptions say Jerusalem and every strong city of Israel will be trodden down and destroyed. Every wall of Jerusalem will fall to the ground, (Ezekiel 38:19-20). "Two thirds of Israel will be cut off and die", (Zechariah 13:8). Whether you interpret that geographically, or apply it only to Israel's Jewish population, you're talking about something on the order of 4 million people dead.

The remnant of Israel will be marking graves and burying the bodies of the enemy for seven months in the Valley of Hamon Gog, (Ezek.39:12), and they will be burning the "weapons" of their enemies for seven years. That's an awful lot of death and carnage to clean up, and it sounds to me like Israel is going to be a long time restoring basic services to tourists.

So I'm thinking, if I survive here in America, I'm probably going to have to pass on your invitation to visit the Holy Land after the Apocalypse.

keras · Feb 29, 2016

stephen583 said:
So do I keras. The Scripture specifically mentions the word "War" in Matthew 24:6, and the Forth Horseman of the Apocalypse is going to take a "sword to a quarter of the earth" in Revelation 6:8. In Revelation 18:10,17 the destruction of Babylon is such, that even ship captains will stand far off for fear of her torment. That certainly sounds like the fear of radioactive fallout to me. There are also descriptions of cities in Egypt (posted earlier in this thread), that will be "uninhabitable" for forty years, and Damascus will be uninhabitable even for wild beasts and scavengers. Conventional Warfare simply doesn't explain this kind of long term destruction. Neither does a solar flare, (CME). For me, there is no question Nuclear Warfare is going to be the culprit responsible for much of this destruction, not acts of God, as some suggest.

In Joel 2:3 where the invasion of Israel is described, it says about the enemy attack, "the land before them shall be like the Garden of Eden, and behind them a desolate wilderness, and nothing shall escape them". Other descriptions say Jerusalem and every strong city of Israel will be trodden down and destroyed. Every wall of Jerusalem will fall to the ground, (Ezekiel 38:19-20). "Two thirds of Israel will be cut off and die", (Zechariah 13:8). Whether you interpret that geographically, or apply it only to Israel's Jewish population, you're talking about something on the order of 4 million people dead.

The remnant of Israel will be marking graves and burying the bodies of the enemy for seven months in the Valley of Hamon Gog, (Ezek.39:12), and they will be burning the "weapons" of their enemies for seven years. That's an awful lot of death and carnage to clean up, and it sounds to me like Israel is going to be a long time restoring basic services to tourists.

So I'm thinking, if I survive here in America, I'm probably going to have to pass on your invitation to visit the Holy Land after the Apocalypse.

Firstly, you mix up the 'wars'. The next will be an attack by an Islamic confederation against the current nation of Israel.
After the Lord deals with them and Judah as well, probably over 1 billion people will die, the holy Land will be quickly regenerated and the new nation of Beulah formed; all of the Lord's righteous people. It is them that G/M attacks and they will do the clean up.
For this next 'war', the worldwide effects and the cosmic events preclude a nuke war. It will be the Lord's Day of wrath against the nations, as we are told several times; of fire from the sky and specifically from the sun. Isaiah 30:26a, Psalms 50:1-4

Post-Trib Only Nuclear Apocalypse ?!

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