Not a worldwide event

[shilohsfoal]

No it was teh determiniate foreknkowledge and counsel fo God that put Jesus to death! He willingly gave in to His enemies. Like He told Pilate He could have called legions of angels to defeat Rome and the Sanhedrin!

You are correct when it says the littel horn does not kill his people- because He is ot a Jew! He is the physical son of Satan (Gen 3) and a woman of Roman origin. (Dan. 9)

Rev. 16 shows that the antichrist has a global rule. All the armies of the world come to battle Jesus with the antichrist as their head.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!"

Everyone in the bible seems to say it was Israel who caused Jesus's crucifiction.

They even take responsibility for it, and say thier descendents should too.

 

[shilohsfoal]

No it was teh determiniate foreknkowledge and counsel fo God that put Jesus to death! He willingly gave in to His enemies. Like He told Pilate He could have called legions of angels to defeat Rome and the Sanhedrin!

You are correct when it says the littel horn does not kill his people- because He is ot a Jew! He is the physical son of Satan (Gen 3) and a woman of Roman origin. (Dan. 9)

Rev. 16 shows that the antichrist has a global rule. All the armies of the world come to battle Jesus with the antichrist as their head.

PS, it's legal to preach the gospel in Rome but it's illegal to preach the gospel in Israel.
It wasn't a Roman who made it illegal to testify of Christ in Israel.

 

[nolidad]

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!"

Everyone in the bible seems to say it was Israel who caused Jesus's crucifiction.

They even take responsibility for it, and say thier descendents should too.

Well Rome and Israel are the physical agents, but it was the will of the Triune Godhead that Jesus had to die!

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God handed Jesus over to death.

 

[nolidad]

PS, it's legal to preach the gospel in Rome but it's illegal to preach the gospel in Israel.
It wasn't a Roman who made it illegal to testify of Christ in Israel.

And it wasn't the High Priest who gave permission for Jesus to be crucified. Pilate approved it!

Remember Crucifixion was a Roman death not a Jewish. and only the procurator could send one to be crucified.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Well Rome and Israel are the physical agents, but it was the will of the Triune Godhead that Jesus had to die!

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God handed Jesus over to death.

God did not crucify Christ.
God is not antichrist.
Those who reject Christ are antichrist.

 

[shilohsfoal]

And it wasn't the High Priest who gave permission for Jesus to be crucified. Pilate approved it!

Remember Crucifixion was a Roman death not a Jewish. and only the procurator could send one to be crucified.

No, not in th is instance. Pilate plainly stated he was giving the Jews the authority to chose who they wanted crucified. Pilate did not make that choice. He even pleaded with them that he could find no fault in Christ. But he did as they chose.

Matthew 27:22 "What then should I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" Pilate asked. They all answered, "Crucify Him!"
Matthew 27:23 "Why?" asked Pilate. "What evil has He done?" But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify Him!"
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "You bear the responsibility."

Pilate even refers to Jesus as the Christ or Messiah.
An antichrist would never do that.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

Do you know who does deny Jesus is the Christ?
It's the descendents of those who shouted crucify him.
Matthew 27:25 All the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

Very few people In Israel accept Jesus is the Christ.
2 percent of Israel's population is Christian. Most of those are Arabs. 85 percent of the population of Italy is Christian.

 

[nolidad]

God did not crucify Christ.
God is not antichrist.
Those who reject Christ are antichrist.

So then you deny the Scripture that says it was the will fo God to hand Jesus over to be killed for us!

 

[BABerean2]

Well Rome and Israel are the physical agents, but it was the will of the Triune Godhead that Jesus had to die!

Acts 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God handed Jesus over to death.

Christ handed Himself over to death.

He could have prayed and had 12 legions of angels to intercede for Him.

He laid down on that cross voluntarily, and let them drive the spikes into His body.

He did it for me, and for you.

.

 

[nolidad]

No, not in th is instance. Pilate plainly stated he was giving the Jews the authority to chose who they wanted crucified. Pilate did not make that choice. He even pleaded with them that he could find no fault in Christ. But he did as they chose.

Matthew 27:22 "What then should I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" Pilate asked. They all answered, "Crucify Him!"
Matthew 27:23 "Why?" asked Pilate. "What evil has He done?" But they shouted all the louder, "Crucify Him!"
Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but that instead a riot was breaking out, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd. "I am innocent of this man's blood," he said. "You bear the responsibility."

Pilate even refers to Jesus as the Christ or Messiah.
An antichrist would never do that.

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

Do you know who does deny Jesus is the Christ?
It's the descendents of those who shouted crucify him.
Matthew 27:25 All the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

Very few people In Israel accept Jesus is the Christ.
2 percent of Israel's population is Christian. Most of those are Arabs. 85 percent of the population of Italy is Christian.

Pilate did not acknowledge Jesus as the Christos. He merely repeated what was known amongst Jews that Jesus said He was the Christos!

YOu need to understand, Jews never crucified those condemned, they stoned them. Only Rome could give the order for crucifixion, for that was a Roman death method. Even th e Apostles Creed has forever shown Pilate "crucified under Pontus Pilate"

Yes Israel still only has a remnant that is righteous as has been true throughout its history! And so don't gentiles only has a remnant who believe as has been true since the birth of the Church!

 

[Bobber]

Revelation 14:9 And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 14:10 he too will drink the wine of God's anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

If the mark of the beast is given worldwide as many claim, and God has promised to give everyone who takes it the wine of his wrath to drink, then why does God only give his wrath to Babylon and not the entire world?

Revelation 16:19 KJV: And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

I'm not sure the mark of the beast will be totally global either but I wonder if Babylon as outlined in Revelation is just the total world system. Even the scriptures that speak of all the great many ships in it's ports I think it still could mean the worldly system controlled all commerce.

 

[nolidad]

I'm not sure the mark of the beast will be totally global either but I wonder if Babylon as outlined in Revelation is just the total world system. Even the scriptures that speak of all the great many ships in it's ports I think it still could mean the worldly system controlled all commerce.

Babylon is not only the rebuilt city of Babylon, but Babylon the Great the MOther of all Harlots is a global religious system that gives its allegiance ot he antichrist until he turns on it.

The mark is also global! Even now the world is near ready to be able to go to a totally cashless system and through a "mark" all commerce would be done both by businesses and individuals. Not only would this mark be gladly received by the world for the years of slow indoctrination hat has been going on, but will also be a sign that one has received the Antichrist as Savior and Lord!

 

[shilohsfoal]

So then you deny the Scripture that says it was the will fo God to hand Jesus over to be killed for us!

I don't deny that It was God's will that Christ should die for my sins. But I know who judged Christ and caused him to be crucified and that wasn't God. God did not judge Christ nor did God convict him of sin and gave him the death penalty.
If you want to proclaim God is the antichrist you go right ahead. I will continue to acknowledge the Israeli government is antichrist and have written laws that opposes the message of Christ and will judge Christians according to thier law.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Pilate did not acknowledge Jesus as the Christos. He merely repeated what was known amongst Jews that Jesus said He was the Christos!

YOu need to understand, Jews never crucified those condemned, they stoned them. Only Rome could give the order for crucifixion, for that was a Roman death method. Even th e Apostles Creed has forever shown Pilate "crucified under Pontus Pilate"

Yes Israel still only has a remnant that is righteous as has been true throughout its history! And so don't gentiles only has a remnant who believe as has been true since the birth of the Church!

You can attempt to defend those who were antichrist but you cant change the fact that they were still antichrist.

 

[shilohsfoal]

I'm not sure the mark of the beast will be totally global either but I wonder if Babylon as outlined in Revelation is just the total world system. Even the scriptures that speak of all the great many ships in it's ports I think it still could mean the worldly system controlled all commerce.

It is written that the ten horns of the beast hate the harlot and that they give thier power and strength to the beast.
Why Does the beast attack Jerusalem if Babylon is the world?

 

[TribulationSigns]

God did not crucify Christ.

What? Didn't you actually read Scripture?

The Father gave His Son to be slain for us. And yes He did slay His Son.

We are not saved from our sins because the Romans beat up Jesus and killed Him. We are saved from our sins because when Christ was on the Tree all of our sins were imputed to Him, and then God in heaven turned away from His only Son - not because He lacked the moral fortitude to see Him suffer. No! He turned away from His Only Son because His only Son has become sin on our behalf.

That is why Jesus cried, "Eli, Eli lema sabachthani?" (My God, my God why have you forsaken me?)

Then, God, the Father, turn around and use all the full force of His wrath of His Holy hatred against you. And our crimes. That as a Holy God, He must put out. Upon His own Son! Listen to Isaiah.

Isaiah 53:10 KJV
[10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

It pleased the Lord to crush our Messiah, His Son! To crush Him under the full force of His wrath.

 

[nolidad]

I don't deny that It was God's will that Christ should die for my sins. But I know who judged Christ and caused him to be crucified and that wasn't God. God did not judge Christ nor did God convict him of sin and gave him the death penalty.
If you want to proclaim God is the antichrist you go right ahead. I will continue to acknowledge the Israeli government is antichrist and have written laws that opposes the message of Christ and will judge Christians according to thier law.

Well as I do not consider God the Antichrist, your subtle insult is irrelevant.

God did punish Jesus. Jesus became our sin so we would be His righteousness in Him. As I said the physical agents of putting God the Son to death were the roman procurator Pilate, giving in to the conspiracy of the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Herodians.

 

[nolidad]

You can attempt to defend those who were antichrist but you cant change the fact that they were still antichrist.

Never said I was defending them. That is your own presumptuousness speaking.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Never said I was defending them. That is your own presumptuousness speaking.

Good then.
Shall we return to the topic at hand. Not a worldwide event?

 

[nolidad]

Good then.
Shall we return to the topic at hand. Not a worldwide event?

Okay!

Well we need to remember that the Antichrist is the last iteration of the fourth gentile kingdom of the times of the gentiles (matt. 24).

In Daniel 2 and 7 we see these 4 gentile kingdoms in dreams and visions. In Daniel 7 the fourth beast is described thius:

19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Now the first was Nebuchadnezzar/Babylon head of gold-lion
The second the Medeo- Persian Empire chest/arms of silver-- bear lifted on one side
The third Greece waist /thighs of brass-leopard with four head and wings (after Alexander the Great the Grecian kingdom divided into four)
The fourth legs of iron/ feet of iron clay- fourth beast different from the rest.

Now to keep this from getting too long-the fourth beast started with the Roman Empire under Julius Cesar or there abouts. it has not ended and morphed into the two legs (Rome/Constantinople) which has moved to today to england/America and Russia. When this ends it will be a one world govt. For in Daniel 7 it says the fourth beast rules the whole world! Rome never conquered the worlds, the known world or even the civilized world! so this beast is till ruling and the time of the gentiles is still in effect!

Now either concurrent or after the fourth beast has a one world govt. the ten heads/ten horns rule the world! This also is part of the fourth beast! It is during the time of these ten king/rulers that the little horn or eleventh horn rises up, conquers three of the ten horns and the other seven give thewir allegiance to the Antichrist!

So because the fourth beast is declared by the angel to rule the whole earth- the antichrist will be a world ruler and thus his kingdom and the mark will be required for all of earths people under penalty of death!

Also the False prophet hated the false super church and the kings of the earth will overthrow that Babylon teh Great Harlot system. This also is a global system.

Rev. 13 also shows the antichrist is directly linked to the four gentile kingdoms of the time of the gentiles!

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

See the lion(Babylon) teh leopard (Greece) and the bear (medes and Persians)? Also the whole world wonders after beast and then worships Satan!

The False prophet:

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The false prophet causes the earth to worship the beast.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

REv. 17 we see the war against the harlot- the ten kings and the seven kings which come from the world govt. make war and then it is said these kings make war with the lamb!

In REv. 18 the beast has gathered teh kings of teh earth and the armies to was against jesus.

That is why I am convinced it is a global event!

 

[FredVB]

Shall we return to the topic at hand. Not a worldwide event? If the mark of the beast is given worldwide as many claim, and God has promised to give everyone who takes it the wine of his wrath to drink, then why does God only give his wrath to Babylon and not the entire world?

Babylon in the book of Revelation at the end of the Bible is Mystery Babylon. It is not merely a city we know as Babylon, that is no longer around. Mystery Babylon is symbolic of something more, but it is a mystery, so what those who explained symbols in the book of Revelation said for it were then their guesses. So what you heard, and what you came to believe, would have basis from that.

Cities of civilization are all godless and corrupt, and there is destructiveness to this earth from all notable cities, which God should destroy, Revelation 11:18. One city being singled out would not be justified and would not be as noteworthy by all the merchants and the prophecy of that ultimate event, a church that some guess it to be is not described as well by the characteristics listed in Revelation 18, which correspond to the history of all large cities of civilization. The fall of Mystery Babylon will be worldwide, the mystery of what no one would be ready to believe until near the time of the scenario corresponds to what a number of educated people now see, the cities of civilization are unstable and will collapse in a coming catastrophe, from any of contributing trends that continue now, and these are consistent with Bible passages, which I have found.