North Carolina finds 35,000 cases of double voting

[cow451]

This reminds me of that woman, Paris Hilton, who was asked by someone in the press or a paparazzi prior to the first Obama election if she was registered to vote.
She answered, yes! In two States.

All in all what does this mean to the outcome of the vote tally?

While reports like this are upsetting, they just go to reiterate the need for voter ID cards so as to hopefully prevent such things in future.

Voter ID cards do not address this issue. Only interstate data bases checked in advance would prevent double registration and double voting. It would take years and lots of tax dollars to clean up the registration issue.

Be advised that this problem has existed since the first election, so it is not a new problem. The only thing new is that technology makes interstate data collection more feasible and people move more than in the past.

The double voting problem is not one that seems to give either party an advantage, so it's negative effects are negligible, if any, when considered on how small a percentage it happens.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Nonsense, if they moved to another state and registered in that state while not being purged from where they moved from, they are not "double voting"

Again, as pointed out repeatedly, the North Carolina board of elections indicated that there were 35,000 case of double voting.

They also found well over 100,000 cases of double registration ... a different issue, not the focus of this thread. Thanks in advance for staying focused on the thread topic rather than diverting off to double registration.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Voter ID cards do not address this issue. Only interstate data bases checked in advance would prevent double registration and double voting. It would take years and lots of tax dollars to clean up the registration issue.

Be advised that this problem has existed since the first election, so it is not a new problem.

It is a new problem as pointed out by Joykins. Same day voting without absentee balloting minimizes the issue.

The double voting problem is not one that seems to give either party an advantage, so it's negative effects are negligible, if any, when considered on how small a percentage it happens.

Conjecture on your part. I can see multiple arguments for decided political advantage.

 

[cow451]

Again, as pointed out repeatedly, the North Carolina board of elections indicated that there were 35,000 case of double voting.

They also found well over 100,000 cases of double registration ... a different issue, not the focus of this thread. Thanks in advance for staying focused on the thread topic rather than diverting off to double registration.

The people could vote twice because they were registered twice. So, to fix this flaw, one has to fix the registration. And, only slightly more than half the states were surveyed.

If you truly want to fix this problem, you have to be willing to have a massive infusion of tax dollars to create the data base and the pay for the labor to clean up the rolls and prevent double registration.

 

[NightHawkeye]

The people could vote twice because they were registered twice. So, to fix this flaw, one has to fix the registration. And, only slightly more than half the states were surveyed.

No argument. It largely came about because of the "Motor-voter" law.

If you truly want to fix this problem, you have to be willing to have a massive infusion of tax dollars to create the data base and the pay for the labor to clean up the rolls and prevent double registration.

Yes, fix the system.

I want my vote to count.

 

[cow451]

It is a new problem as pointed out by Joykins. Same day voting without absentee balloting minimizes the issue.

I find it surprising that a conservative would want to disenfranchise the United States Armed Forces, not to mention business people that travel frequently, etc. Or maybe we just tell all our enemies to take a few days off while we make everybody come back home to vote.

Conjecture on your part. I can see multiple arguments for decided political advantage.

Sure it's conjecture, but there's no data I ever seen other than that the military trends GOP in national races and they often are stationed somewhere besides "home". So, maybe that helps the Dems in Congressional and Presidential elections.

 

[cow451]

No argument. It largely came about because of the "Motor-voter" law.

Conjecture.

Yes, fix the system.

I want my vote to count.

I want everybody's vote to count.

 

[Veritas]

The report clearly states these findings will be investigated. I would have to say that is hard for you to understand.

Yeah, the findings were founded, already known. What's there to investigate? How 'bout they just go after the culprits? You're not afraid they might be democrats are you? I mean, somebody else threw a bunch of links out in another thread that only republicans commit vote fraud....even though that woman in Ohio that was convicted voted 6 times for Obama. But that doesn't count, I guess.

 

[Bedford]

Yeah, the findings were founded, already known. What's there to investigate? How 'bout they just go after the culprits? You're not afraid they might be democrats are you? I mean, somebody else threw a bunch of links out in another thread that only republicans commit vote fraud....even though that woman in Ohio that was convicted voted 6 times for Obama. But that doesn't count, I guess.

They were discovered through analyzing data. Now somebody needs to dig deeper to confirm their findings.

We will wait for their findings while you climb the mountain and shout to the world about the sky falling.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Yeah, the findings were founded, already known. What's there to investigate? How 'bout they just go after the culprits? You're not afraid they might be democrats are you? I mean, somebody else threw a bunch of links out in another thread that only republicans commit vote fraud....even though that woman in Ohio that was convicted voted 6 times for Obama. But that doesn't count, I guess.

What's there to investigate? Really?

Have you been reading the threads?

For one thing, they don't know yet that these weren't errors on the part of election staff.

Second, they don't know yet that these were actually all the same people.

Third, they don't yet know that these people actually did anything illegal (or that they deliberately did anything illegal).

 

[cow451]

Yeah, the findings were founded, already known. What's there to investigate? How 'bout they just go after the culprits? You're not afraid they might be democrats are you? I mean, somebody else threw a bunch of links out in another thread that only republicans commit vote fraud....even though that woman in Ohio that was convicted voted 6 times for Obama. But that doesn't count, I guess.

Maybe that will cost a bunch of TAX DOLLARS. It will be less expensive (though still costly) to track each case and tally up the data.

Some of those people with exact names and birthdates are probably two different people, most likely for people with common names (Smith, Jones, Brown, etc.). You currently share your birthday with about 859,178 people who reside in the United States. Remember only 765 had first and last name, birthdate AND last four digits of SSN.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Maybe that will cost a bunch of TAX DOLLARS. It will be less expensive (though still costly) to track each case and tally up the data.

Some of those people with exact names and birthdates are probably two different people, most likely for people with common names (Smith, Jones, Brown, etc.). You currently share your birthday with about 859,178 people who reside in the United States. Remember only 765 had first and last name, birthdate AND last four digits of SSN.

Birthdate indicates year as well. That's a strong discriminator.

The article also indicated that the absence of SSN matches was largely due to the absence of SSN information, not due to SSN mismatch.

Kinda looks like the North Carolina board of elections was serious about finding and documenting real instances of vote fraud.

 

[Bedford]

Kinda looks like the North Carolina board of elections was serious about finding and documenting real instances of vote fraud.

Hardly. This was a data collection effort and queries on the information provided. This is the easy stuff.

The more difficult and costly stuff occurs when they attempt to verify the data.

Let's see if it is followed through before we claim that they were serious.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Hardly. This was a data collection effort and queries on the information provided. This is the easy stuff.

If it's so easy, why is North Carolina the first state to do it?

Noting also that the states with the largest populations, New York, California, Texas, and others refused to cooperate.

 

[Joykins]

It is a new problem as pointed out by Joykins. Same day voting without absentee balloting minimizes the issue.

I doubt it's a new problem.

And to be clear: I don't want to get rid of absentee balloting or extended voting days. I do want registrations validated for uniqueness. That is, if I register in Pennsylvania, I want the database my registration is entered in to seek out duplicate registrations in other states, validate that the duplicate is a genuine duplicate*, and delete the older registration(s). I would also like the databases to cross-reference with death records, again, with due diligence.

* This is the tricky part, some will be easy and some are going to be difficult and involve a person doing research.

 

[cow451]

Birthdate indicates year as well. That's a strong discriminator.

My bad. Thanks for the correction. You probably share your birthdate (Month Date and Year) with approximately 864 Americans (assuming one birth every ten seconds). Unlike some, I don't mind showing the math. In the case of some of us a lot fewer birthdate twins due to advanced age.

Kinda looks like the North Carolina board of elections was serious about finding and documenting real instances of vote fraud.

Good for North Carolina taxpayers. That double voting worked out pretty well for the GOP.

 

[Bedford]

If it's so easy, why is North Carolina the first state to do it?

That made no sense. The issue is time and money.

Noting also that the states with the largest populations, New York, California, Texas, and others refused to cooperate.

Because they know that this is a witch-hunt. Let the red states waste their money on meaningless reports. We all understand that there will always be some voter fraud, however it is not worth the money spent. Funny that conservatives cry about government waste, then defend these types of conservative endeavors.

I guess this IS much more important than helping poor people.

 

[NightHawkeye]

That made no sense. The issue is time and money.


Because they know that this is a witch-hunt. Let the red states waste their money on meaningless reports. We all understand that there will always be some voter fraud, however it is not worth the money spent. Funny that conservatives cry about government waste, then defend these types of conservative endeavors.

I guess this IS much more important than helping poor people.

Your appalling lack of concern for disenfranchising more than 35,000 North Carolina voters is noted.

 

[Queller]

A single fraudulent vote disenfranchises one voter.

35,000 fraudulent votes disenfranchises 35,000 voters. It's not complicated.

Did you just come up with this definition off the top of your head? I hope not because it is wrong.

disenfranchise: to prevent (a person or group of people) from having the right to vote

You can play semantic games all you want but I go with the dictionary definitions of words, not ones you make up.

LOL ... Your attempted change of topic is noted.

Until the North Carolina data, your side was claiming there was no significant voter fraud.

Voter IDs aren't about combating voter fraud? What are they for then?

 

[Queller]

You're quibbling semantics. (It's a losing argument, just so you know.)

Then why are you making up your own definitions?

Every fraudulent vote cancels out someone's legitimate vote ...

This is not even remotely true.

What if both the rightful voter and the fraudulent voter vote for the same candidate?

What if the rightful voter is dead? Then there is no legitimate vote to cancel out.

That's what happens when you use absolutes such as "every fraudulent vote".