Nonsexual lusting

[LinkH]

Many years ago, I read part of the Shepherd of Hermas. I don't want to argue for how legitimate the writing is, but it is interesting. In it, Hermas is reproved of sinning for his thoughts about a woman.

1:1 The master, who reared me, had sold me to one Rhoda in Rome. After many years, I met her again, and began to love her as a sister.
1:2 After a certain time I saw her bathing in the river Tiber; and I gave her my hand, and led her out of the river. So, seeing her beauty, I reasoned in my heart, saying, "Happy were I, if I had such an one to wife both in beauty and in character." I merely reflected on this and nothing more.

If a man looks on a woman to desire her-- to be his wife without thinking sexual thoughts-- is this also committing adultery in his heart? A man is not to covet his neighbor's wife.

 

[mkgal1]

I expected this thread to be about another sort of lusting.....like, lusting for power; lusting for food; lusting for prestige; etc.

I'm unfamiliar with the writing you quoted. Are you talking about a single man....and a single woman? If so......I don't see a desire to take her as his wife to be lust at all----so, no.....it's not adultery either.

Why are you bringing up neighbor's wife....though?

 

[Verve]

Mmm food lust.

Like cake pops? Or pancakes?

I could totally go for some cake pops right now.

 

[mkgal1]

Personally......cake pops would steal my peace (later.....after the sugar crash)....so, that would be lustful.

Pancakes made from eggs/almond butter/banana would sustain my peace (and give happiness to my taste buds).......IMO, that wouldn't be lust. That would be part of enjoying the abundant life Christ offers (it's those little things.....you know?).

 

[Verve]

Personally......cake pops would steal my peace (later.....after the sugar crash)....so, that would be lustful.

Pancakes made from eggs/almond butter/banana would sustain my peace (and give happiness to my taste buds).......IMO, that wouldn't be lust. That would be part of enjoying the abundant life Christ offers (it's those little things.....you know?).

I have never made pancakes with almond butter.
They sound tasty though.

Very very tasty. Do you do the clean eating thing MK?

 

[mkgal1]

They're joyous

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Many years ago, I read part of the Shepherd of Hermas. I don't want to argue for how legitimate the writing is, but it is interesting. In it, Hermas is reproved of sinning for his thoughts about a woman.

If a man looks on a woman to desire her-- to be his wife without thinking sexual thoughts-- is this also committing adultery in his heart? A man is not to covet his neighbor's wife.

This brings the following to mind for me:

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world (I Jn. 2: 15-16).

The KJV uses 'lust' as opposed to 'desires' like the ESV. Just some food for thought.

 

[Johnnz]

The quote has nothing to do with lust. It as about a man appreciating her physical beauty and character.

John
NZ

 

[mkgal1]

I'd agree with JohnNZ, if these were two single people (especially since the narrator said, "Happy were I, if I had such an one to wife both in beauty and in character.")

However, it seems that the narrator (Hermas) is married:

As Hermas was on the road to Cumae, he had a vision of Rhoda. She told him that she was his accuser in heaven, on account of an unchaste thought the (married) narrator had once had concerning her, though only in passing. He was to pray for forgiveness for himself and all his house

 

[Johnnz]

Married or not appreciation of beauty is not inherently lustful. In that consistently misquoted verse Jesus taught it was lusting with the intent to commit adultery that was wrong. That is much more than just finding someone attractive.

John
NZ

 

[mkgal1]

I think there's more to the story than just what's in the OP. Hermas *did* write, "Happy were I, if I had such an one to wife both in beauty and in character." Since he (Hermas) was already married.........it seems he's doing more than just appreciating her beauty/character.

I agree (BTW) that merely appreciating beauty/character isn't lustful.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

So all that John said about the 'desires of the eyes' was not applicable to (so-called) merely "appreciating beauty"? It seems to me that Eve set the pattern:

"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate" (Gen 3:6a).

Our subject in the OP "merely reflected" on his thoughts. I can imagine Eve did the same before she acted with some consequences she didn't count on.

 

[mkgal1]

That tree that Eve was admiring was outside of God's parameters for her and Adam. She was seeing something sinful as something alluring. That's probably the beginning of the process----no longer seeing sin as God does. IMO.......anytime something is outside of God's will.....and we are enticed by it......that's sin (missing the mark).

 

[LinkH]

Let's say a man sees a married woman and desires her to be his wife, but doesn't think any sexual thoughts. Let's say she cooks really well, or she's smart, and he thinks I wish this were my wife. He looks at her, and lusts after her for nonsexual reasons. That's looking with lust, too, isnt' it.

 

[Johnnz]

So all that John said about the 'desires of the eyes' was not applicable to (so-called) merely "appreciating beauty"? It seems to me that Eve set the pattern:

It is standard Christian theology that ascribes beauty in creation to God as the only Being capable of such creativity and resourcefulness. To acknowledge beauty as a gift, wherever we are blessed by its presence, it to engage in worship, wonder, and thanksgiving, and when we produce something of beauty we experience the satisfaction of following in God's footsteps. The Psalmist often wrote of the wonder of God's creation. Solomon was characterised by excellence in knowledge, creativity and sublime artistry as well as his wisdom. In fact all his best aesthetic achievements were an expression of wisdom, and therefore reflective of God's wisdom and creativity. I find it a bit odd that Christians readily express their appreciation of beauty for many things - nature, landscapes, great commercial designs or fashion, yet tend towards guilt or uncertainty over a beautiful woman.

The 'desires of the eyes' is not the denial of beauty but our motives and unthankfulness as we merely use something for our own ends.

John
NZ

 

[hijklmnop]

Isn't this just what we would call coveting another mans wife?

 

[ChristianGolfer]

Isn't this just what we would call coveting another mans wife?

That's what I was just going to say.

 

[McScribe]

Lusting is basically coveting. Coveting is where you want something that you have no right to. So essentially it doesn't matter what the lust is related to in terms of desire.

 

[dayhiker]

I don't see that Hermas did anything wrong. I don't seem him desiring to take Rhoda away from her husband. It seems all his thought was is here is a beautiful woman inside and out and how this is the type of woman who makes for a good wife. Mkgal's quote is a vision where this woman, Rhoda is said to be his accuser in heaven. That puts her in Satan's position of accuser and not the position of a truth teller. Hermas's on comment is simple to observe that this woman is a good example of what makes a good wife. Its Rhoda's accusations that there is something he is doing wrong. I don't see anything wrong in Hermas' comments.

However, it seems that the narrator (Hermas) is married:

As Hermas was on the road to Cumae, he had a vision of Rhoda. She told him that she was his accuser in heaven, on account of an unchaste thought the (married) narrator had once had concerning her, though only in passing. He was to pray for forgiveness for himself and all his house
​

 

[mkgal1]

Without reading the full piece (which I'm not interested in doing), I'm unsure of all the circumstances. It's definitely a fine line. Just as in the passage that A34 quoted......it seems that there's a pattern of sin that begins with seeing something we knew was sinful as enticing and "good". When our will is in opposition to God's will....we are in sin. The upside of that is......we don't have to stay there. God forgives.