Non-Bible Sabbath POV in the scenario where Bible Sabbath is one of the Commandments written on heart under New Cov

[BobRyan]

NOTE: The actual New Covenant text is found in Jer 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8 verbatim - unchanged in the NT. In that covenant (that one-and-only Gospel covenant) God says He writes the Law of God on heart and mind, adopts us into His family and forgives sins.

In the TEN Commandments we have things commands like "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8-11.

Certainly a well-behaved atheist can refrain from taking God's name in vain.
A well-behaved atheist can choose not to work on Saturday

But a spirit-filled child of God can do that in obedience to the Word of God in the condition where "Sin shall not rule over you" Rom 6 - but the atheist cannot. The lost person can only act out of their natural sinful nature - whereas the Christian can comply with the Word of God in true obedience. In Spirit and in Truth.

So Given that as "informed context":

I am looking for a non-Bible Sabbath keeping perspective on the scenario where you are wrong.

This thread is looking at the scenario where all of theses texts that follow and the condition indicated -- are true to the point that the real 7th day Bible Sabbath is included in the commandments of God for all people today and is written on the heart to affirm "God's commandments".

So then
1. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

2. "God spoke these ten words from the cloud on the mountain directly to all of Israel and wrote them on stone... and He added no more" Deut 5:22. A statement that fully applies to the law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

3. "This IS the LOVE of God what we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

4. "Honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 Is a statement that fully applies to all the saints and shows that all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN is for Christians to this very day..

5. "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

6. "It is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL Be justified... on the day when according to my gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through Jesus Christ" Rom 2:13-16 is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

... many other examples that could be included

===================================

The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?

IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

 

[BobRyan]

It is fully possible that someone could respond without an ounce of interest in evaluating that scenario objectively and just looking for a way to game that idea with some posts. I ask that you choose one of the many other Sabbath threads for that sort of thing since they already have it.

This one is asking for your serious consideration of the scenario proposed.

 

[Blade]

You said "your POV" three times. How is what you posted not your POV (point of view). Well I went back and reread each verse then what was written before those verses and each one something was being talked about. Just take Rom 2:13 it starts off with "For". Something was being talked about before that. You then take it a bit farther and add " is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.".

From the start I can disagree with some of the verses you pulled out put together to fit to say what you believe or as you said POV. Maybe start this with "this is what I believe and why"? You could have posted just the scriptures and asked us to go read them and what do you come away with not telling us what each of those verses "really say". Christ said the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Mark 2:27. Just that says everything thanks anyway..

 

[Clare73]

NOTE: The actual New Covenant text is found in Jer 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8 verbatim - unchanged in the NT. In that covenant (that one-and-only Gospel covenant) God says He writes the Law of God on heart and mind, adopts us into His family and forgives sins.
So Given that as "informed context":
I am looking for a non-Bible Sabbath keeping perspective on the scenario where you are wrong.
This thread is looking at the scenario where all of theses texts that follow and the condition indicated -- are true to the point that the real 7th day Bible Sabbath is included in the commandments of God for all people today and is written on the heart to affirm "God's commandments".
So then
1. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.
2. "God spoke these ten words from the cloud on the mountain directly to all of Israel and wrote them on stone... and He added no more" Deut 5:22. A statement that fully applies to the law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.
3. "This IS the LOVE of God what we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.
4. "Honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 Is a statement that fully applies to all the saints and shows that all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN is for Christians to this very day..
5. "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.
6. "It is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL Be justified... on the day when according to my gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through Jesus Christ" Rom 2:13-16 is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.
... many other examples that could be included
===================================

The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?

First of all, that is a misnomer, the NT does not oppose the Bible Sabbath, it does just the opposite, it enlarges it.

The apostle who gave us half those quotes above teaches that simply one rule--love of God and neighbor as self--is the fulfillment of the Decalogue.(Ro 13:9-10)

Heb 3:7-4:13 presents another and remaining Sabbath rest for the people of God in the NT.
Keeping in mind that the correct understanding of the Sabbath is that it was made for man, NOT man for the Sabbath.
It was made for man's rest.
It was "set apart" (the meaning of sanctify, holy) from work. . .to rest. . .for man.

The NT Sabbath rest for man is God's own full-time Sabbath rest, in the salvation rest of Jesus Christ, from our own work to save, and in Jesus' work which saves.

The NT Sabbath does not abolish God's Sabbath rest for man, it does just the opposite.
It makes it full-time. . .set apart (sanctified, holy) from man's work to save himself.
In the NT we truly keep God's Sabbath rest for man, set apart from all work to save ourselves and full-time rest in Jesus' work which saves.

And in the NT, we do not fail to assemble together (Heb 10:25), which we do on Sunday.

THIS is what is to be reckoned with regarding the Sabbath in the NT.

 

[expos4ever]

4. "Honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 Is a statement that fully applies to all the saints and shows that all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN is for Christians to this very day..

I suggest you are going beyond what can be justifiably concluded from this text:

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Yes, Paul is effectively commanding us to honour our parents, just as the Law of Moses does.

But, and this is really important, this does not justify concluding that the Law of Moses is still in effect.

I suggest there is a perhaps subtle, but vital distinction here that you guys are muzzling - the distinction between the content of a moral principle and the vehicle by which it is delivered. Thus, we can have a situation where, for example, Canadian Law has some of the same content as American Law - both recognize murder as illegal - yet this does not, of course, mean that a Canadian is subject to American law!

The content of the "rule against murder" is the same but this certainly does not justify concluding, for example, that we Canadians are all subject to the American law against murder let alone the rest of American law! How is this not obvious?

So, in Eph 6:2, I can claim that Paul, speaking through inspiration of the Spirit is telling us to honour our parents, but it surely does not logically follow that we are therefore still under the Law of Moses in any sense whatsoever.

 

[BobRyan]

I suggest you are going beyond what can be justifiably concluded from this text:

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), 3 so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth.

Yes, Paul is effectively commanding us to honour our parents

Indeed in vs 1 - he already said that.

1. "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right."

So in vs 1 we have Paul as an inspired writer commanding the NT saints to obey parents ... but in vs 2 he is adding something to that authoritative statement in vs 1.

What he adds is not only a quote from the Law of Moses but a focus on the TEN where that statement uniquely occurs as the "first commandment with a promise". It is not merely affirming vs 1 -- it is adding authority of existing scripture to it, and then raising the focus on a specific feature of the TEN.

IN my OP I don't claim that objectors will not exist to the texts as quoted or to the point I raise for each one. I ask for the non-Bible-Sabbath keeping POV on what the implications would be in the scenario where the OP texts and the observation made of them - is correct.

But, and this is really important, this does not justify concluding that the Law of Moses is still in effect.

Well given that almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth today have a statement affirming the TEN as included in the moral law of God referenced in the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 and Heb 8:6-12 -- I think it is "reasonable" to ask about the scenario where the OP statements are correct and asking what that would mean to someone holding views opposed to the Bible Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

First of all, that is a misnomer, the NT does not oppose the Bible Sabbath, it does just the opposite, it enlarges it.

To enlarge "do not take God's name in vain" does not include "finding ways to claim it is ok to take God's name in vain".

I think a lot of people will agree with that observation.

The NT Sabbath does not abolish God's Sabbath rest for man, it does just the opposite.
It makes it full-time. . .set apart (sanctified, holy) from man's work

No text in OT or NT allows people of God to refrain from all secular work every day of the week. Even though in EX 20 and in Is 58:13 scripture commands that very thing on the Bible Sabbath day each week.

In any case I am not arguing that objectors to the OP text with comment and focus -- do not exist. I am asking for someone with that POV to respond to the implications of the statements in the OP being correct as stated.

 

[freeinhim3]

NOTE: The actual New Covenant text is found in Jer 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8 verbatim - unchanged in the NT. In that covenant (that one-and-only Gospel covenant) God says He writes the Law of God on heart and mind, adopts us into His family and forgives sins.

So Given that as "informed context":

I am looking for a non-Bible Sabbath keeping perspective on the scenario where you are wrong.

This thread is looking at the scenario where all of theses texts that follow and the condition indicated -- are true to the point that the real 7th day Bible Sabbath is included in the commandments of God for all people today and is written on the heart to affirm "God's commandments".

So then
1. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

2. "God spoke these ten words from the cloud on the mountain directly to all of Israel and wrote them on stone... and He added no more" Deut 5:22. A statement that fully applies to the law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

3. "This IS the LOVE of God what we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

4. "Honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 Is a statement that fully applies to all the saints and shows that all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN is for Christians to this very day..

5. "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

6. "It is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL Be justified... on the day when according to my gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through Jesus Christ" Rom 2:13-16 is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

... many other examples that could be included

===================================

The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?

IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Hence:
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Rom3:20
Hence
If a commandment to follow a specific saturday sabbath is in believers hearts, they would have to be conscious of sin in their heart by failing to follow it. I have no consciousness of sin by failing to follow a specific saturday sabbath, which I assume leads you to believe I am not in covenant

 

[BobRyan]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Hence:
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Rom3:20
Hence
If a commandment to follow a specific saturday sabbath is in believers hearts, they would have to be conscious of sin in their heart by failing to follow it. I have no consciousness of sin by failing to follow a specific saturday sabbath, which I assume leads you to believe I am not in covenant

The Bible does not say "whatever you imagine defines what sin is".

The Bible say "transgression of the LAW" is what sin is.

But for an individual we have "to him who KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Many atheists will say that they do not feel a bit bad about taking God's name in vain.
Many Christians will say that they do not feel a bit bad about praying to Mary, or departed relatives or bowing down before sacred images.
Many Hindus will say they do not feel a bit bad about bowing down before images of their own gods,deities, relatives...

feeling good or bad is not the ultimate standard.

This thread asks you to consider the 'scenario' where the statements made in the OP are correct as stated. Is it your response then that your feeling good is sufficient even in the case where the statements in the OP is the actual correct state of the matter?

 

[Clare73]

To enlarge "do not take God's name in vain" does not include "finding ways to claim it is ok to take God's name in vain".

I think a lot of people will agree with that observation.

The NT Sabbath does not abolish God's Sabbath rest for man, it does just the opposite.
It makes it full-time. . .set apart (sanctified, holy) from man's work. . . . . .("to save himself" omitted here by Bob)

No text in OT or NT allows people of God to refrain from all secular work every day of the week.

That is shameful, Bob. You have deliberately misquoted my post above, and then rebutted your misquote.
My post stated: "The NT Sabbath makes God's Sabbath rest full-time. . .set apart (sanctified, holy) from man's work to save himself.

The whole NT is about man never working to save himself in God's full-time salvation rest in Christ, from his own work to save and in Christ's work which saves.

 

[freeinhim3]

The Bible does not say "whatever you imagine defines what sin is".

The Bible say "transgression of the LAW" is what sin is.

But for an individual we have "to him who KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17

Many atheists will say that they do not feel a bit bad about taking God's name in vain.
Many Christians will say that they do not feel a bit bad about praying to Mary, or departed relatives or bowing down before sacred images.
Many Hindus will say they do not feel a bit bad about bowing down before images of their own gods,deities, relatives...

feeling good or bad is not the ultimate standard.

I see, so a seventh day adventist will abandon sola scripture in order to defend hindus, catholics and the unsaved

 

[BobRyan]

I see, so a seventh day adventist will abandon sola scripture in order to defend hindus, catholics and the unsaved

no - the texts I provided come from the Bible -- not from Hindus. Details matter.

 

[BobRyan]

No text in OT or NT allows people of God to refrain from all secular work every day of the week.

IN fact Paul says "if a man will not work - neither let him eat" - 2 Thess 3:10

That is shameful, Bob. You have deliberately misquoted me,'

Nope.

I have deliberately shown that according to the Word of God - every day is not Sabbath. Every day is not the seventh-day of Ex 20:8-11.

I have deliberately shown that the God claims He sanctified the 7th day for holy use, the day is set aside for worship and no secular activity Is 58:13, Lev 23:3

The whole NT is about man never working to save himself

The One and only Gospel found in both OT and NT (Gospel preached to Abraham Gal 3:8) is always about the fact that man cannot save Himself - but even so - God gave sinless man the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3 and God provides it for all mankind to this very day "the Sabbath made for mankind" at the Gen 2:1-3 point where both mankind and the Sabbath are made

No wonder we see Gospel preaching to both Gentiles and Jews "Every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4
No wonder it is gentiles asking for more gospel preaching on "The next Sabbath" in Acts 13
No wonder scripture says that for all eternity after the cross all mankind will come before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23

 

[HIM]

Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Hence:
Through the law we become conscious of sin. Rom3:20
Hence
If a commandment to follow a specific saturday sabbath is in believers hearts, they would have to be conscious of sin in their heart by failing to follow it. I have no consciousness of sin by failing to follow a specific saturday sabbath, which I assume leads you to believe I am not in covenant

So once again your thoughts and feelings are the standard and not Christ and Scripture.

 

[Dahveed]

NOTE: The actual New Covenant text is found in Jer 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8 verbatim - unchanged in the NT. In that covenant (that one-and-only Gospel covenant) God says He writes the Law of God on heart and mind, adopts us into His family and forgives sins.
In the TEN Commandments we have things commands like "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8-11.
Certainly a well-behaved atheist can refrain from taking God's name in vain.

a·the·ism: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God.
"We must, however, acknowledge, as it seems to me, that man with all his noble qualities... still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin." Darwin

A well-behaved atheist can choose not to work on Saturday

An atheist relying on his own endeavors is at an impasse, since atheists do not acknowledge God let alone the One He sent.
And as Jesus told non-believing Jews, John 5:38 If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins; John 8:24
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; Romans 8:7-8

But a spirit-filled child of God can do that in obedience to the Word of God in the condition where "Sin shall not rule over you" Rom 6 - but the atheist cannot. The lost person can only act out of their natural sinful nature - whereas the Christian can comply with the Word of God in true obedience. In Spirit and in Truth.

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Rom 8:9

"It is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL Be justified... on the day when according to my gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through Jesus Christ" Rom 2:13-16

The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath --

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. Mark 2:28 Hebrews 2:11

how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?

The implication is that atheists and non-believing religious zealots are spiritually dead in sin.
Whereas the new covenant believer, as you described above is alive in Christ.
Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:1-2

IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 3:23-24
So that we may understand what God has freely given us. 1 Cor 2:12

 

[Doran]

NOTE: The actual New Covenant text is found in Jer 31:31-34 and quoted in Hebrews 8 verbatim - unchanged in the NT. In that covenant (that one-and-only Gospel covenant) God says He writes the Law of God on heart and mind, adopts us into His family and forgives sins.

In the TEN Commandments we have things commands like "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 and "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" Ex 20:8-11.

Certainly a well-behaved atheist can refrain from taking God's name in vain.
A well-behaved atheist can choose not to work on Saturday

But a spirit-filled child of God can do that in obedience to the Word of God in the condition where "Sin shall not rule over you" Rom 6 - but the atheist cannot. The lost person can only act out of their natural sinful nature - whereas the Christian can comply with the Word of God in true obedience. In Spirit and in Truth.

So Given that as "informed context":

I am looking for a non-Bible Sabbath keeping perspective on the scenario where you are wrong.

This thread is looking at the scenario where all of theses texts that follow and the condition indicated -- are true to the point that the real 7th day Bible Sabbath is included in the commandments of God for all people today and is written on the heart to affirm "God's commandments".

So then
1. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

2. "God spoke these ten words from the cloud on the mountain directly to all of Israel and wrote them on stone... and He added no more" Deut 5:22. A statement that fully applies to the law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

3. "This IS the LOVE of God what we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

4. "Honor your father and mother - is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 Is a statement that fully applies to all the saints and shows that all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN is for Christians to this very day..

5. "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 - is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

6. "It is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL Be justified... on the day when according to my gospel God will judge the secrets of all mankind through Jesus Christ" Rom 2:13-16 is a statement that fully applies to all of God's moral law - including the unedited, non-modified Sabbath commandment in the TEN.

... many other examples that could be included

===================================

The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?

IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

You do know that the 4th commandment is a ritualistic, ceremonial law, right (Leviticus 23), AND as such it functions as a SIGN to the Mosaic Covenant (Ex 31:12-13) in the same way as the ceremonial, ritualistic law of circumcision functioned as a sign to the Abrahamic Covenant?

 

[BobRyan]

You do know that the 4th commandment is a ritualistic, ceremonial law, right (Leviticus 23)

Lev 23 does not say it is ritual, ritualistic or ceremonial. Rather Lev 23:3 says it is a "day of holy convocation".

so then "going to church" i.e. "holy convocation" the way we see a lot of Christians doing that very thing on Sunday and others on Saturday.

That does not make it "ceremonial".

So then the question this thread is asking --

===================================
The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?
IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

 

[Doran]

Lev 23 does not say it is ritual, ritualistic or ceremonial. Rather Lev 23:3 says it is a "day of holy convocation".

so then "going to church" i.e. "holy convocation" the way we see a lot of Christians doing that very thing on Sunday and others on Saturday.

That does not make it "ceremonial".

What part of the first two verses don't you get?

Lev 23:1-2
23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them:'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
NIV

Some translations translate the Hebrew mowed (Strong's 4150) as an "appointment", i.e. a fixed time or season, specifically a festival. Since when are feasts or festivals anything but a part of the ceremonial laws in the Law of Moses?

Now jump down to v. 4 of this passage and see that Moses starts the next section of seasonal or annual sabbaths with the same term "mowed": "These are the Lord's appointed feasts....you are to proclaim at their appointed times..." And v. 5 lists the Lord's Passover at the very top of these seasonal or annual feasts or festivals. Therefore, it's crystal clear from the text that the weekly sabbath is characterized as a feast day or festival right along with annual or seasonal festivals.

Even Paul characterized all sabbaths as shadows!

Col 2:16-17
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
NIV

Show me one text in scripture wherein any moral law is ever portrayed as a type or shadow.

It's equally clear to me that you do not understand what a ritual is either. Here's how my M-W Collegiate defines the adjective "ceremonial". Pay attention, please:

Main Entry:1cer£e£mo£ni£al
Pronunciation:*ser-*-*m*-n*-*l
Function:adjective
Date:14th century

: marked by, involved in, or belonging to ceremony : stressing careful attention to form and detail
–cer£e£mo£ni£al£ism \-*-*li-z*m\ noun
–cer£e£mo£ni£al£ist \-*-list\ noun
–cer£e£mo£ni£al£ly \-*-l*\ adverb
synonyms CEREMONIAL, CEREMONIOUS, FORMAL, CONVENTIONAL mean marked by attention to or adhering strictly to prescribed forms. CEREMONIAL and CEREMONIOUS both imply strict attention to what is prescribed by custom or by ritual, but CEREMONIAL applies to things that are associated with ceremonies *a ceremonial offering*, CEREMONIOUS to persons given to ceremony or to acts attended by ceremony *made his ceremonious entrance*. FORMAL applies both to things prescribed by and to persons obedient to custom and may suggest stiff, restrained, or old-fashioned behavior *a formal report* *the headmaster's formal manner*. CONVENTIONAL implies accord with general custom and usage *conventional courtesy* and may suggest a stodgy lack of originality or independence *conventional fiction*.

There's nothing more ritualistic than the observance of a weekly sabbath! Even the very first definition of "ritual" states: of or relating to rites or a ritual: CEREMONIAL (emphasis M-W)

And the last nail in the coffin for the type of law the 4th commandment is can be found in the fact that this commandment was designated as a SIGN to the Mosaic Covenant (Ex 31:13, 17). No moral law is ever designated as a sign to any covenant!

 

[BobRyan]

What part of the first two verses don't you get?

Lev 23:1-2
23:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them:'These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.
NIV

Well we don't see "every Sabbath feasts" in Acts 18:4. What we see is "Every Sabbath" Gospel preaching to both gentiles and Jews in the synagogue.

Same thing in Acts 17,

Same thing in Acts 13.

And no "Feast" in the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11. Nor in Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath"

So while it is true that there are many annual feast days in Lev 23 - the weekly Sabbath is not an annual feast.

Some translations translate the Hebrew mowed (Strong's 4150) as an "appointment",

2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Not only is Sabbath not a feast day - but also the Day of Atonement in the 9th month is not a feast day. However the Day of Atonement is an annual Sabbath that at its creation has animal sacrifice required. Unlike Ex 16, Ex 20:8-11, Gen 2:1-3 and Is 66:23- for the weekly Sabbath.

So then back to the question this thread is asking --

===================================
The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?
IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

 

[Doran]

Well we don't see "every Sabbath feasts" in Acts 18:4. What we see is "Every Sabbath" Gospel preaching to both gentiles and Jews in the synagogue.

Same thing in Acts 17,

Same thing in Acts 13.

And no "Feast" in the Sabbath commandment Ex 20:8-11. Nor in Ex 16 "tomorrow is the Sabbath"

So while it is true that there are many annual feast days in Lev 23 - the weekly Sabbath is not an annual feast.

2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Not only is Sabbath not a feast day - but also the Day of Atonement in the 9th month is not a feast day. However the Day of Atonement is an annual Sabbath that at its creation has animal sacrifice required. Unlike Ex 16, Ex 20:8-11, Gen 2:1-3 and Is 66:23- for the weekly Sabbath.

So then back to the question this thread is asking --

===================================
The question I have for those who oppose the Bible Sabbath -- how do you evaluate the condition if the above scenario is the right one? What are the implications in your POV, what are the consequences in your POV?
IF the above scenario were the correct one - would God care enough about it in your POV to let everyone know?

But God speaking through Moses clearly said the weekly sabbath was a feast OR festival day! Said it twice in fact! Fact number two is that in the introductory verse (v.2) to all what follows, Moses used the same Hebrew word in v.4 which begins the section for the seasonal or annual feasts and again in closing out this section on all the sabbaths Moses in vv.37 and 44 used the same Hebrew word for feasts or festivals. In fact, this is how Moses, speaking by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, summed up chapter 23:

Lev 23:44
44 So Moses announced to the Israelites the appointed feasts of the LORD.
NIV

In other words, the entire chapter is BOOKENDED from beginning to end with the Hebrew term "mowed". This clearly means that everything Moses said from v.2 to the very end of the chapter is in the category of ceremonial law! God declared through Moses that all the sabbaths in that chapter were His feast days or festivals! Again, I repeat those were God's appointed feasts days. Look at the phrases in v.2 again..."Concerning the feasts of the LORD....even these are MY feasts"!

And clearly you don't want to understand the definition of this Hebrew term, do you? Here it is taken from my Interlinear bible:

mowed`
OT:4150 mowed` (mo-ade'); or moed` (mo-ade'); or (feminine) mow`adah (2 Chron 8:13) (mo-aw-daw'); from OT:3259; properly, an appointment, i.e. a fixed time or season; specifically, a festival; conventionally a year; by implication, an assembly (as convened for a definite purpose); technically the congregation; by extension, the place of meeting; also a signal (as appointed beforehand):

KJV - appointed (sign, time), (place of, solemn) assembly, congregation, (set, solemn) feast, (appointed, due) season, solemn (-ity), synogogue, (set) time (appointed).
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Therefore, the weekly sabbath differs in not one iota from all the other sabbaths because like them it is a divinely appointed time or fixed time or an assembly, etc.

What Paul did in Acts has no bearing on what this passage in Leviticus 23 is teaching. It's a non-sequitur.

You also ignore the fact that the 4th commandment was designated by God as a sign to the Mosaic Covenant. Therefore, the 4th commandment cannot possibly be an absolute, moral law! It must be a ceremonial law.

And you had no reply to what Paul wrote in Col 2:16-17 which actually does have relevance to Leviticus 23; for all the sabbaths and holy days were were but SHADOWS of things that were to come!

Furthermore, since the Old Covenant, under which all the sabbaths were instituted as Law, is now obsolete, NONE of those sabbaths or festivals or feast days are any longer binding upon any New Covenant believer. The Old Covenant is history. It's no longer operative as a rule of life, except in those cases when the NT affirms some law or commandment as continuing into this current New Covenant dispensation, such as the other 9 of the 10 commandments that were written on the Tablets of Stone. The other 9 are definitely repeated in the NT because those are absolute, eternal, moral laws that are in fact written on the hearts of all men (Rom 2:14-15).