Noah's local flood

Honeycomb

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Corrected Genesis.



GEN 8:9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole provincial region: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark. (KJV)

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"the whole" 3605 kol (kole);

kowl (kole); from 3634; properly, the whole; hence, all, any or every (in the singular only, but often in a plural sense): KJV-- (in) all (manner, [ye]), altogether, any (manner), enough, every (one, place, thing), howsoever, as many as, [no-] thing, ought, whatsoever, (the) whole, whoso (-ever).

------>"earth" 776 'erets (eh'-rets);
from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth

(at large, or [partitively a land]: KJV-- X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, province, district, region.
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Wherever we see EARTH in the account of Noah's food, it's supposed to be Region or local land,

Hence; The Whole REGION was fooded. I will go by what is in the origional text.

The Hebrew word "har" occurs 649 times in the Old Testament. In 212 instances, the word is translated "hill" or "hills" or "hill country".

In Genesis, it is translated "hill" in 10 out of 19 occurrences. Of course, 4 out of 9 times that it is translated as "mountain" is in the flood passage; the translators were wearing their “global” glasses when they did that translation. :scratch:

The text should be translated "hill" or hills.

Mountains, refers to the hills that Noah could see.


Do you still have on your "global" glasses?



Have a great day
Peace & God bless :wave:
 
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Wherever we see EARTH in the account of Noah's food, it's supposed to be Region or local land,

I don't see why you keep saying that with no evidence to back it up. Especially with so much contextual evidence to the contrary. But then again, Man (or woman) doesn't turn against logic until logic turns against him (or her).

You are the one with the glasses on - Local Glasses.
 
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Honeycomb

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Sorry that you choose to follow traditional teaching.

I choose to abide IN His word.
And stay IN His word.

While eretz can mean the whole Earth,

If we take a quick jump to Exodus and examine a few passages using the same Hebrew word used in Genesis that Christians take as "entire earth" ('erets), it is most obvious that the word definitely does not mean "entire earth".

Exd 6:1 Then the LORD [03068] said [0559] (8799) unto
Moses [04872], Now shalt thou see [07200] (8799) what I will do [06213] (8799) to Pharaoh [06547]: for with a strong [02389] hand [03027] shall he let them go [07971] (8762), and with a strong [02389] hand [03027] shall he drive them out [01644] (8762) of his land [0776].

Exd 6:4 And I have also established [06965] (8689) my covenant [01285] with them, to give [05414] (8800) them the land [0776] of Canaan [03667], the land [0776] of their pilgrimage [04033], wherein they were strangers [01481] (8804).

Exd 6:4 And I have also established [06965] (8689) my covenant [01285] with them, to give [05414] (8800) them the land [0776] of Canaan [03667], the land [0776] of their pilgrimage [04033], wherein they were strangers [01481] (8804).

Exd 6:11 Go [0935] (8798) in, speak [01696] (8761) unto Pharaoh [06547] king [04428] of Egypt [04714], that he let the children [01121] of Israel [03478] go out [07971] (8762) of his land [0776].

A few from Deuteronomy shows much of the same:

Deu 10:7 From thence they journeyed [05265] (8804) unto Gudgodah [01412]; and from Gudgodah [01412] to Jotbath [03193], a land [0776] of rivers [05158] of waters [04325].

Deu 10:19 Love [0157] (8804) ye therefore the stranger [01616]: for ye were strangers [01616] in the land [0776] of Egypt [04714].

I could continue with the hundreds of accounts of this word, but it's pretty obvious the word doesn't mean "earth", and is used in a different fashion than "earth" much more often.

The idea of a local flood also fits in with archeological history a LOT better, since a worldwide flood has no historical or archeological evidence for this time period.

God doesn't like it when His children follow after made-up story's and tradional nonsense, that seek to hide the truth by twisting it.

I know I'm right, and I forgive you :hug:



Have a great day
Peace & God bless :wave:
 
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A word in the Bible does not have to be translated the same way in each occurrence if the word has several meanings. That's why translators consider CONTEXT.

for example:
Joe drove to his home (local abode)
Joe drove to his home (place of origin or upbringing)

Don't worry, it doesn't matter to me that you're wrong. I still think well of you.
 
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Sayci

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either the bible is contradicting itself (again!) or you are wrong

Rage, What do you mean again?

I believe that when the flood took place (4000 years ago)It covered the entire Earth... It had to kill Every living thing on the earth. It couldn't have been a local flood. Those are my beliefs. I am a Christian and I believe everything the bible says is true...because I have no reason or evidence not to, except for the reason that Satan is continually trying to make us doubt...

Sayci

:) :rolleyes: :)
 
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Honeycomb

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BY Sayci

quote:
either the bible is contradicting itself (again!) or you are wrong

Rage, What do you mean again?
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BY Honeycomb

Hi :) Sayci God bless.

I study God’s word using concordance dictionaries, all Christians should.

There simply are no contradictions. :pink:

Everything the well educated scoffer and atheist non-believer usually uses to dispel the Bible and Christianity in general, is the vain traditional teachings of Church. It’s because the nonsense that is USUALLY taught, is easy to dispel.

Most Christians, I hate to say it, but MOST don’t bother to check-out what they are told in church. They never really got into His word, breaking things back to the original meanings of words used and colloquialisms expressed.

Simply put, most don’t bother. So they end-up getting in dumb arguments because they are defending a vain tradition and not what is actually written.

I have no problem with the Earth being billions years old, because God’s word allows for that.

I have no problem with a Great but regional flood, because God’s world allows for that too.

It all fits together very nicely; to the person that diligently studies His word.

There are no contradictions to what is divinely inspired, and written in their perspective original languages. Mostly, Hebrew Greek.

There is one book found in the old testament of the KJV Bible that is inspired of man but even here too, the LORD & Father of us all, teaches the students something.
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BY Sayci

I believe that when the flood took place (4000 years ago)It covered the entire Earth... It had to kill Every living thing on the earth. It couldn't have been a local flood.
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BY ELI

Noah’s Flood happened in 2348 BC. That’s smack in the middle of what is commonly known as the Bronze Age of Human development.

Sorry Sayci, :scratch: but there simply is no interruption of human development, nor is there a geologic record that Egypt or any other place was destroyed in a great flood on or around 2500 BC. The last high stand of sea water occurred 15 million years ago.

Something terrible did happen to the Earth around this time period but it was a more localized event that was known of by all civilizations, and recorded in oral tradition or even some written accounts.
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BY Sayci

Those are my beliefs. I am a Christian and I believe everything the bible says is true...because I have no reason or evidence not to, except for the reason that Satan is continually trying to make us doubt...
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BY ELI

Sayci, you are equating your church tradition or what is commonly taught about, as being God’s word.

I am a Christian and I believe everything God’s word says is true

I read that there was a great Earth catastrophe in this time period but it didn’t put the entire Earth under water, but only a great region.


Have a great day. :wave:
Peace & God bless
 
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WayneH

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sayci.......


I agree with you ... ;)

and there is evidence of a flood that was WORLD wide.... gee - just go to West Virginia to cranberry glades.. you will find things there that do not belong - they belong on other side of the World.. and what sayci is saying about what is taught biblically is exactly that - not church teaching - but Bible believing Pastors - layman etc........ I have no problem a person believing what they wish - but doesn't make you right and the rest wrong - or vice versa - not only that - but its not a salvation issue which is the most important aspect of Christian life..... oh..... from everything I have studied and learned - the flood was approx. 6000 years or more ago....
 
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Sayci

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Hello,

Honeycomb, here is where we disagree, because unless man is billions of years old, the earth is only about 6000 years old. Man was the beginning, before man the earth was dark and void. I believe what the bible says is true, if you add up everyones ages from the beginning with Adam you will get about 6000 years, altogether. If man is 6 billion years old then don't you think history would have said something about all that missing time, or were there things on the earth before the Bible and the Bible is lying somehow, which do you believe?

I also believe the flood covered the entire earth unless all the living things all lived in Noah's neighborhood... These are my beliefs.

by Honeycomb
I have no problem with a Great but regional flood, because God’s world allows for that too.

How does God's word allow for that?

I do not go to a public church at this time, my father is led to teach to us, for now...

By HopeofGlory10
Don't worry, it doesn't matter to me that you're wrong. I still think well of you.

Well, I'm sorry that you have reached this conslusion so soon...

By Honeycomb
The idea of a local flood also fits in with archeological history a LOT better, since a worldwide flood has no historical or archeological evidence for this time period.

Except for the Bible!!! Isn't that evidence enough!

By Honeycomb
God doesn't like it when His children follow after made-up story's and tradional nonsense, that seek to hide the truth by twisting it.

Hide the Truth!!!
What about Gen. 7:19 19And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered...

Doesn't that mean that the entire earth was covered with the flood. That's what I believe to be true.

Sayci
 
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Honeycomb

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Hide the Truth!!!

What about Gen. 7:19 19And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered...

Doesn't that mean that the entire earth was covered with the flood. That's what I believe to be true.

Sayci

...You shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free...

Christy
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BY Honycomb

Gen. 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the region, and all the foothills under the whole cloud covered Heaven.

I think local :pink:


Are you the Apple of His Eye?

The apple of the eye is the pupil. The very focus of your attention.

Did you know that in the very center of a hurricane, it’s very calm?

Its called, the Eye of the hurricane.

Always remember, Think local=eretz when reading about the flood. And you'll be doing just fine.




Have a great day :wave:
Peace & God bless
 
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LouisBooth

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Stayci, if nothing else you are backed by prayer.. ;) I'm a literalist when it comes to the genesis account as well.

"And you'll be doing just fine.

So do you think a bird can't fly any farther then locally? That really screws up going south for the winter then doesn't it?
 
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Sayci

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Hello again, :)

What Bible are you using? Because from the looks of it you changed one important word. Mine said earth and yours said region. ....?...

I can't think that. I do not believe that to be true. eretz may mean local; but I cannot put eretz in the place of earth. Sorry, I believe when I think about the Lord and his miracles. Our minds cnnot comprehend the information that the Lord has tried to put across to us.

Why is it not possible to believe and know that the world could be completely covered in water, meaning the Great Flood consumed the entire surface of the planet? Why?

Have a great day!

Sayci :)
 
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Honeycomb

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The same Hebrew word used in the flood account that most take as "entire earth" ('erets), definitely does not mean the "entire earth" in the flood account of Noah.

Eretz 0776 is used as Region or land in the following passages.
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Exd 6:1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land [0776].

Exd 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land [0776] of Canaan, the land [0776] of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Exd 6:4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land [0776] of Canaan, the land [0776] of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers.

Exd 6:11 Go in, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, that he let the children of Israel go out of his land [0776].

A few from Deuteronomy shows much of the same: :pink:

Deu 10:7 From thence they journeyed unto Gudgodah; and from Gudgodah to Jotbath, a land [0776] of rivers of waters.

Deu 10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land [0776] of Egypt.
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I could continue with the hundreds of accounts of this word, but it's pretty obvious the word doesn't mean "earth", and is used in a different fashion than "earth" much more often.

The idea of a local flood also fits in with archeological history a LOT better, since a worldwide flood has no historical, geological or archeological evidence for this time period.

Of the 205 instance of kol erets in the Old Testament, it might refer to the entire planet just 40 times, and even some of those are questionable.

About half of those instance occur in the books of Psalms and Isaiah.

There is a Hebrew word that always refers to the entire earth or the entire inhabited earth. The word is tebel (Strong's H8398), which is found 37 times in the Old Testament.

Curiously, this word is never used to describe the flood, although it is used extensively to describe the creation of the earth and the judgment of the peoples of the earth.



Have a great day :wave:
Peace & God bless



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And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the region, and all the foothills under the whole cloud covered Heaven.
 
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Sayci

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Hi,


That's exactly what I meant, the "eretz" word takes the place of "land" not "earth". You said so yourself that it is not mentioned in the account of the great flood...

this word is never used to describe the flood

That is what I mean, the word is used for the things that concerns country or region; but it isn't used in the description of the flood.

By the way, God said he wouldn't cause a flood like that ever again, But since then we have had many floods, Are you saying that God broke his promise to us?

There is a Hebrew word that always refers to the entire earth or the entire inhabited earth. The word is tebel (Strong's H8398), which is found 37 times in the Old Testament.

Where is it used?

I think at the moment we are at an impass, because no matter what I say you will disagree and no matter what you say I will disagree, because we believe differently unless something off the wall happens in this last post. I do not wish to endanger any kind of friendship we will develop beyond this thread. But, if you do not believe that you can be hurt by our messages then by all means I would be glad to discuss it with you until the end of the earth. :)

Have a wonderful day!

Sayci
 
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chickenman

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I saw the documentary on the localised (still a very large area) flood of the black sea, I don't see why you people would reject this evidence, because it supports the bibles statements about a large flood. The people who wrote the genesis account of the bible could not possibly have known the extent of the entire world, and so to them, this large flood represented the "known world".
 
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Honeycomb

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The entire world was known by Moses. :pink:

That's way He wrote Eretz=Local. And not the whole world.

The Egyption Mummies show things like tobacco and "other" substances not found in Egypt but are only found in the americas.

The Local flood only effected the Eretz = Noahs local land.


Have a great day :wave:
Peace & God bless
 
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Honeycomb

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They make us look bad. With their six thousand year old Earth and their world flood of 2340-2500 BC. And other nonsense not found His word but only in tradions of men
with control issues.

God's word allows for a great but local regional flood in 2340 BC

God's word allows for the Earth to be billions of years old. Gen 1. "Created perfect"

God's word allows for the Earth entirely under water
Gen 1:2. God's word allows for an "Earth Destroyed" but not entirely, Jer 4:27.



Have a great day :wave:
Peace & God bless
 
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