Noah's Flood Was Definitely Local, Why?

[Aman777]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean but Peter’s understanding of what ‘the whole world’ was at that point wasn’t that much different. Check out some ancient world maps.

Two problems Scripturally:

1. Peter did not author the words. They came from the Holy Spirit. 2Pe 1:21
2. The account in ll Peter 3:6 speaks of the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS.

Did the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth get it correct? Was it Adam's firmament made on the 2nd Day by God the Trinity Gen 1:6-8, the firmament/heaven which "THEN WAS" which was totally destroyed (Greek-perished) in the Flood? Or was it today's world?

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The mountains on Adam's world were covered when the flood reached a depth of 15 cubits (22.5 feet). Gen 7:20 The Scoffers of the last days will NOT believe that Adam's world was totally destroyed in the flood. The world which is now can NEVER be destroyed by water since it's the 3rd ROCK from the Sun. Believing the theology of ancient men is perpetuating the superstitious, uneducated view of the past.

It's time to recognize God's Truth in Genesis IS God's Literal Truth. God Bless you

 

[GBTG]

Not so, since I invite anyone to discuss the agreement of Scripture, science and history, which I call God's Truth since it is the Truth in every way. Anything less is only a part truth. Is your understanding a part truth or God's Truth?

Your invitation is arrogance, as only "you" know God's "Truth", therefore how can I respond? You have made yourself equal to the understanding of God, let no man question your scriptural correctness and accuracy! Your interpretation is not biblical, I cannot show you how its not biblical, because you already know that I am wrong! I would say please don't respond, but alas I know better, as such I will no longer participate. Please do not account this as a concession of your argument, but rather an apology from me, for goading a well intended believer with an exotic translation of biblical "Truth".

Regards, GBTG

Mathew 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!"

 

[Aman777]

Your invitation is arrogance, as only "you" know God's "Truth", therefore how can I respond?

You could try to support your religious view, which obviously cannot be supported by Scripture, science nor history. IOW, it's your personal opinion?

You have made yourself equal to the understanding of God, let no man question your scriptural correctness and accuracy!

I'm trying to get you to question my views, for in doing so, you will see that your personal opinion does NOT agree with Scripture, science nor history?

Your interpretation is not biblical, I cannot show you how its not biblical, because you already know that I am wrong!

That is apparent since you preach the ancient Theology of Hebrews who lived more than 3k years ago. You cannot support those views since they are not in Scripture, don't agree with Science nor History but only with your personal opinion. A good example is the length of God's 7 Days/Ages of Creation. Each of His Days/Ages is billions of years in length in man's time.

I would say please don't respond, but alas I know better, as such I will no longer participate. Please do not account this as a concession of your argument, but rather an apology from me, for goading a well intended believer with an exotic translation of biblical "Truth".

Don't leave. Stay and TRY to support your views, but please drop false accusations, which you cannot support. Amen? God Bless you

 

[Dale]

The flood which totally destroyed Adam's world was confined to Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat. Adam's firmament sank in the Lake releasing the Ark into our Biosphere on the 150th day after the flood began. Adam's world was totally destroyed and the First Human to step foot on our Earth was Noah. Amen?

False, since Eden was NOT on planet Earth. It was in Adam's firmament which was totally destroyed in the flood. ll Peter 3:6

Amen. Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey, 11,000 years ago and his entire Earth was "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 and today is part of the largest Lake in Turkey. What is interesting is that Lake Van is in the mountains of Ararat and Adam's firmament is STILL at the bottom of the Lake. Amen?

Noah's flood totally destroyed Adam's world, ll Peter 3:6 but not planet Earth. As Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago, all living creatures, except Noah's family died. This released the 450 ft long Ark into the Lake and the history of Human civilization began on planet Earth.

Aman,

You keep using the phrase "Adam's firmament." You distinguish between "Adam's firmament" and "our firmament."

Genesis One doesn't tell us about two firmaments. There is only one firmament, and that is the sky. The firmament contains the sun, moon and stars. The firmament, or sky, separates the waters above the firmament from the waters below the firmament, but there is only one firmament.

In the conception of Genesis One, the Waters Above the Firmament are the source of rain. You seem to picture the Garden of Eden being an island in the Waters Above the Firmament. Then you tell us that that place, whatever you call it, crashed during Noah's Flood. By this logic, there would be no rain following Noah's Flood since there is no longer a Waters Above the Firmament for rain to come from.

 

[Aman777]

Aman,

You keep using the phrase "Adam's firmament." You distinguish between "Adam's firmament" and "our firmament."

That is because Adam's firmament, which God called Heaven, Gen 1:8 was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 in the midst of water with water above and below it. It was totally surrounded by water.

Genesis One doesn't tell us about two firmaments. There is only one firmament, and that is the sky. The firmament contains the sun, moon and stars. The firmament, or sky, separates the waters above the firmament from the waters below the firmament, but there is only one firmament.

That is the ancient view of men of lived thousands of years before Science. We live today in the last days before Jesus returns and we have the increased knowledge to understand Genesis which NO ancient man had. Dan 12:4 Adam's small firmament or solid boundary protected his Earth from the water which surrounded it. Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet and was covered with water when the flood reached that depth. Our firmament is Millions of Light years wide and our Earth could NEVER be destroyed with water since it's a ROCK.

In the conception of Genesis One, the Waters Above the Firmament are the source of rain. You seem to picture the Garden of Eden being an island in the Waters Above the Firmament. Then you tell us that that place, whatever you call it, crashed during Noah's Flood. By this logic, there would be no rain following Noah's Flood since there is no longer a Waters Above the Firmament for rain to come from.

Here's a simple model of Adam's Earth. Take a container/firmament and put water in the bottom and dry ground on top of the water. It's NOT our Earth since Adam's was totally destroyed in the flood. 2 Pet 3:6 Our Earth has Stars but there were none in Adam's AND there is NOT water above a solid firmament on our planet. Amen?

 

[Dale]

The Historic evidence shows that until Noah arrived, bringing Adam's superior intelligence to this Planet of the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes, in Lake Van, Turkey some 11k years ago, there were NO Humans here. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE The world (kosmos) that was totally destroyed in the Flood was Adam's Earth, ll Peter 3:5 releasing the Ark, and bringing Noah's grandsons, who married and produced today's Humans, by INHERITANCE, with NO magical Evolution involved. Amen?

You are using an idiosyncratic definition of "human". It may well be that Adam is not the ancestor of all humans, but all the people I mentioned were, as I said, Homo sapiens or, in common speech, humans. In fact, increasingly, I have seen "human" applied to all members of the genus Homo.

It's because I'm not Homo anything EXCEPT in the world's classification system. God classifies me as a Human, made higher than the Angels and destined to have dominion or rule over His Kingdom and every other living creature. Gen 1:28 Humans were made Billions of years BEFORE any other living creature Gen 2:4-7 making it impossible that Humans could have possibly evolved from the common ancestor of Apes as Godless Evolution falsely teaches.

I grant that if you use your definition (human=descendants of Adam =/= all H. sapiens) you can make sense of a global/local flood. But idiosyncratic definitions make for poor communication and understanding. Most people understand "human" as "H. sapiens". Further, there is no evidence that any group of H. sapiens are endowed with intelligence superior to that of other groups.

How many Cave men have you talked to? My point is that Humans became mixed with the prehistoric people who were already here when the Ark arrived. Today, there are 7 Billion Humans (descendants of Adam) alive on Planet Earth today. It could NOT be slow moving evolution since in the past 1% of time since Homos diverged from Chimps the descendants of Adam (Humans) have SUDDENLY taken mankind to the Moon and back and mindless evolution doesn't do ANYTHING sudden and has NO direction. Amen?

Well that would be local and it would not affect humans who were not descendants of Adam unless they lived in the same locality. It certainly would not affect those living on different continents, nor quite some distance removed from Turkey such as those in Central or South Asia, or China.

It affected every prehistoric person on this Earth some 11k years ago. They began slowly to inherit the superior intelligence of Adam which is like God's. Gen 3:22 Today, Humans, with a free choice to believe in Jesus or not, are getting close to the Judgment of what they really believe.

That I would agree with. That would be why the literary story of the flood depicts a global flood even though the historical flood was local.

It's confined to a single Lake in the mountains of Ararat, while religious zealots look for the 450 ft long covered barge on top of a mountain. Do they really think the Supreme Intelligence of Creation would put the Ark on a mountain instead of in the 1500 ft deep, 75 mile wide Lake? They probably had been following the Theology of ancient men. Amen?

Cave men never planted a crop, built a house or demonstrated any Human traits, which were first shown by Cain's descendants on Adam's Earth. Adam farmed with NO evolution and Cain built a city and his descendants lived in tents, made musical instruments and had smelting with NO evolution. Gen 4:16-22

Cave men are called the sons of God in the Bible and today's Scientists have falsely assumed that the sons of God (prehistoric people) were Humans, which is impossible since Adam was made Billions of years BEFORE any other living creature. Gen 2:4-7

Aman,

In post #16, you say there is "NO magical Evolution." Evolutionary theory isn't magic and doesn't claim to be. It is your creationist fantasies that are magical.

You say that Adam was created billions of years before anything else in posts #22 and #24. Then you go on to denounce "Godless Evolution." Normally creationists reject evolution because they reject billions of years, preferring to believe that the earth and the universe is only a few thousand years old. Why do you believe that the universe has been around for billions of years and still prefer an odd version of creationism to science?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

All of this within decades after a global flood?

(decades or more, no worries either way)

Yep, now you're catching on ! (GOOD!)

 

[Dale]

That is because Adam's firmament, which God called Heaven, Gen 1:8 was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:6-8 in the midst of water with water above and below it. It was totally surrounded by water.



That is the ancient view of men of lived thousands of years before Science. We live today in the last days before Jesus returns and we have the increased knowledge to understand Genesis which NO ancient man had. Dan 12:4 Adam's small firmament or solid boundary protected his Earth from the water which surrounded it. Adam's Earth was only 22.5 feet and was covered with water when the flood reached that depth. Our firmament is Millions of Light years wide and our Earth could NEVER be destroyed with water since it's a ROCK.



Here's a simple model of Adam's Earth. Take a container/firmament and put water in the bottom and dry ground on top of the water. It's NOT our Earth since Adam's was totally destroyed in the flood. 2 Pet 3:6 Our Earth has Stars but there were none in Adam's AND there is NOT water above a solid firmament on our planet. Amen?

You're still repeating the same nonsense about two firmaments, about "Adam's firmament."

There is ONE firmament in Genesis One. Got it?

If you believe anything else you are inserting words into the text that aren't there.

 

[Aman777]

Aman,

In post #16, you say there is "NO magical Evolution." Evolutionary theory isn't magic and doesn't claim to be. It is your creationist fantasies that are magical.

It would have to be magic for mindless Nature to implant God's superior intelligence Gen 3:22 inside Apes....UNLESS you can explain the process by which this happens. Normally, the only way to change intelligence is through sex, but you seem to know another way. Please explain.

You say that Adam was created billions of years before anything else in posts #22 and #24. Then you go on to denounce "Godless Evolution." Normally creationists reject evolution because they reject billions of years, preferring to believe that the earth and the universe is only a few thousand years old. Why do you believe that the universe has been around for billions of years and still prefer an odd version of creationism to science?

Adam was made at the beginning of the 3rd Day/Age BUT the beginning of our Cosmos was late on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 We know this because it was less than a Billion years until the FIRST Stars lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 When did the first stars form in the universe?

That is because each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in length in man's time. Adam was made at the beginning of the 3rd Day and the Big Bang of our Cosmos was LATER on the same Day/Age. Gen 2:4 Then, the first Stars lit up on the NEXT Day/Age. That's God's Time Scripturally.

I refer to "Godless" evolution since the men who dreamed it up REJECTED God's Truth in favor of an incomplete false assumption which forgot about the flood. 2 Peter 3:3-7 tells us of these "Scoffers of the last days" who will NOT believe that Adam's world (Kosmos) was totally destroyed in the flood. Neither will they believe that the present world will be burned.

My view is that God's Truth AGREES with every discovery of Science and History and also exposes the biggest satanic Lie ever forced upon our children, the ToE.

 

[Aman777]

You're still repeating the same nonsense about two firmaments, about "Adam's firmament."

There is ONE firmament in Genesis One. Got it?

If you believe anything else you are inserting words into the text that aren't there.

Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens (Plural) and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens (Plural),

God the Trinity (Elohim) made the first Heaven on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8
Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) made other heavenS (Plural) on the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4 the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made according to Gen 1:9-10

That makes at least THREE firmaments/heavens of which 2 were made by God the Son and the first was made by God the Trinity. This is very important. Don't you know the difference between the Trinity (Their kinds) and His (Jesus' kinds)?

 

[GBTG]

@Aman777

Mathew 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!"

Regards, GBTG

 

[stevevw]

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

peopleof that time could not have known that the world (earth) was that big. Not even great explorers, and scientists before they circumnavigated the earth, and discovered its size did we know about the extent of the earth. To those of Noahs time the world was as far a they could see.

 

[Aman777]

@Aman777

Mathew 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!"

Ad-hominem false accusation from someone who cannot support their views with actual Scripture. God Bless you

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

To those of Noahs time the world was as far a they could see.

So ?
What "time" is YHWH 'of' ?
It is YHWH , Who guards His Own Word even more than He Guards His Own Name,
Who Sent the world wide flood to destroy mankind, all except 8 in the ARK YHWH Designed.

The world wide flood covered the whole earth for what, 7 minutes ? 7 days ? 7 months ? .... no.... how long ?

 

[Aman777]

The world wide flood covered the whole earth for what, 7 minutes ? 7 days ? 7 months ? .... no.... how long ?

The world wide flood covered the whole earth on the 150th day after the flood began. This totally destroyed Adam's small flat Earth. Isaiah tells us the ground was "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 in the flood. As Adam's firmament sank, it released the 450 ft long Ark into the Lake. Today, the firmament rests under 11,000 years of Volcanic debris in the mountains of Ararat. History records this event and confirms God's Truth of how and when this happened. Amen?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The world wide flood covered the whole earth on the 150th day after the flood began. This totally destroyed Adam's small flat Earth. Isaiah tells us the ground was "clean dissolved" Isa 24:19 in the flood. As Adam's firmament sank, it released the 450 ft long Ark into the Lake. Today, the firmament rests under 11,000 years of Volcanic debris in the mountains of Ararat. History records this event and confirms God's Truth of how and when this happened. Amen?

You know I cannot "Amen" with you (because of your previously disclosed beliefs). Some of your "facts" are right, but others are going entirely in the opposite direction of YHWH'S WORD.
"unless 2 are agreed, they cannot walk(/work) together".

 

[Aman777]

You know I cannot "Amen" with you (because of your previously disclosed beliefs). Some of your "facts" are right, but others are going entirely in the opposite direction of YHWH'S WORD.
"unless 2 are agreed, they cannot walk(/work) together".

Then tell us WHEN in the past water covered Mt Everest. You don't seem to know that water does NOT affect our planet since it is covered with water. Planet Earth is a Rock and cannot be destroyed by a flood, no matter how you interpret Scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then tell us WHEN in the past water covered Mt Everest. You don't seem to know that water does NOT affect our planet since it is covered with water. Planet Earth is a Rock and cannot be destroyed by a flood, no matter how you interpret Scripture.

Don't try to interpret Scripture.

Simply believe what God Says, as He grants wisdom and understanding freely.

Why do you oppose what He Says plainly ?

Where does HIS WORD Say the planet earth is destroyed ? (hint:never by water)

 

[Aman777]

1. Don't try to interpret Scripture.
2. Simply believe what God Says, as He grants wisdom and understanding freely.
3. Why do you oppose what He Says plainly ?
4. Where does HIS WORD Say the planet earth is destroyed ? (hint:never by water)

1. Then HOW can you know what Scripture says to me. Do you think everyone should accept your interpretation?
2. Sure, just be stupid and ignore the scientific and historic evidence and remain as dumb as a post. Right?
3. I don't but neither do I run around preaching a false view and pretending that I am correct. I support what I post with Scripture, science, and History. Do you?
4. God tells Noah that He is going to destroy evil mankind "with the Earth". Gen 6:13 God tells Noah that never again is He going to "destroy the earth" in a flood. Gen 9:11 God speaks in Isaiah about the "SNARE" which is the flood which "clean dissolved" Adam's Earth. Isa 24:19 God tells us in Peter that He "spared not" the world of Adam. 2Pe 2:5 He tells us in 2Pe 3:6 that the world (Greek-Kosmos) that "THEN WAS" perished (Greek-destroyed totally). How much plainer could He be? Just because the current religious view is wrong is no reason to not read God's Truth of the matter.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

1. Then HOW can you know what Scripture says to me. Do you think everyone should accept your interpretation?

Whenever and all the time that YHWH opened the Apostle's and the disciples minds to understand Scripture , or any of the men HE chose,
YHWH always revealed the TRUTH to them, i.e. the same message, not different messages.
Same today with true believers all over the world.

In Scripture see first, the reality from YHWH, as He accomplishes and as He permits.