Noah's Flood Was Definitely Local, Why?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The interesting part about this, is that secular science once again can give credence to the Bible, are my numbers therefore still suspect?

Everything secular is suspect, all the time, until tested and proven.
Even every 'message' from an Apostle likewise ! Tested and proven B4 accepted.
WHen anything secular, from the world, CONFIRMS Scripture, then it may be true.
If anything denies Scripture, then it cannot be true.

 

[Aman777]

The phrase “fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail” does not mean that the Flood was only 15 cubits deep, for the phrase is qualified by the one which immediately follows: “and the mountains were covered.”

False, since in context the narrative shows that the flood was only 15 cubits deep when the mountains on Adam's flat Earth were covered with water:

Gen 7:17 ¶ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

The flood deepened after forty days and lifted up the Ark from the ground.

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

ALL the highest hills were covered when the water prevailed or covered the earth.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

The flood prevailed upward for 15 cubits (22.5 feet) and the mountains were covered on Adam's small flat Earth. Your view is soundly refuted Scripturally. Try again?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Whenever anyone believes what is false as a premise, they will defend it 'to the end' if YHWH does not grant that the veil be removed.
Since YHWH says clearly all that He Purposed, Planned, Directed and Accomplished,
anyone who denies YHWH or 'changes' His Word [to accommodate false teachings] must be wrong. (well, that's understood from the start, anyway) ...

 

[Aman777]

Whenever anyone believes what is false as a premise, they will defend it 'to the end' if YHWH does not grant that the veil be removed.
Since YHWH says clearly all that He Purposed, Planned, Directed and Accomplished,
anyone who denies YHWH or 'changes' His Word [to accommodate false teachings] must be wrong. (well, that's understood from the start, anyway) ...

Is your rant directed to anyone in particular? Or is it just howling into the night?

 

[pat34lee]

You are correct about the implications... Simple math.

Let’s try to put that in another perspective. The Atlantic Ocean is about 80,000,000 miles³. That means, there needed to be more water than could be contained by ten Atlantic Oceans to cover the whole Earth. If this is indeed the case as you imply, where did the 250% extra water go?

Regards, GBTG

Look at just two assumptions you begin with:
1. Mountains the same before the flood.
2. Earth the same size before the flood.

What if:
We started with a smaller earth with no giant oceans
and no large mountains? There would have been seas
because there were whales, but they would have been
smaller than the Atlantic, and the water in them would
have been fresh, not salty.

After the flood, when the earth grew, the continents
were pushed apart and the oceans grew and deepened.

 

[GBTG]

Look at just two assumptions you begin with:
1. Mountains the same before the flood.
2. Earth the same size before the flood.

What in the Bible or science supports mountains or the Earth being smaller than it is currently?

Regards, GBTG

 

[Aman777]

What in the Bible or science supports mountains or the Earth being smaller than it is currently?

Regards, GBTG

The fact that the 450 ft long Ark arrived safely from Adam's earth into the largest lake in Turkey, bringing Human civilization to our planet filled with the descendants of the common ancestor of apes. Science and History agree with God's Holy Word. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

The Ark arrived in Lake Van, Turkey 11,000 years ago in the mountains of Ararat.

 

[GBTG]

@Aman777

No offense brother but your interpretation is so far removed from accurate I know not what to say. At first I was amuzed but now I am truly disheartened. I hope you don’t share this view anywhere but on these forums! Please do not give a rebuttal trying to demonstrate this wild interpretation of scripture as anything remotely Biblical. I have seen your reasoning and scriptural references prior and need not read another ludicrous adaptation of the Bible. I respect that you feel strongly about your interpretation, but you and I will never agree.

Regards, GBTG

 

[Aman777]

@Aman777

No offense brother but your interpretation is so far removed from accurate I know not what to say. At first I was amuzed but now I am truly disheartened. I hope you don’t share this view anywhere but on these forums! Please do not give a rebuttal trying to demonstrate this wild interpretation of scripture as anything remotely Biblical. I have seen your reasoning and scriptural references prior and need not read another ludicrous adaptation of the Bible. I respect that you feel strongly about your interpretation, but you and I will never agree.

Regards, GBTG

Then refute me Scripturally if you can. i can easily refute your religion since it's really easy to refute an ancient goat herder's religion, which many THINK is true. Only the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge of our time, can possibly understand Genesis according to the Lord.

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Is your view true Scripturally, Scientifically and Historically...or is it a half truth?

 

[pat34lee]

What in the Bible or science supports mountains or the Earth being smaller than it is currently?

Regards, GBTG

First, something for you to look up. There are seashells on top of
every mountain, including Mt. Everest. Even on top of the great
pyramid. Plenty of pictures of them online.

 

[joshua 1 9]

There are seashells on top of
every mountain

You do not accept the explanation science has for this?

 

[Tom 1]

Anstey is incorrect, just add up the years between births from Arphaxad born two years after the flood to Abraham. All that matters is how many years an individual lived before the next in the genealogical line is born then how many years this newest individual lived before the next in the genealogical line is born, etc, etc, etc, etc.

How many years each individual actually lived before death is inconsequential.

Abraham was born 292 years after the flood, there is no disputing this, I don't know where Anstey is getting this addition 58 years from.

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

The genealogies in Genesis 5 & 10 aren’t meant to be taken as complete or even strictly chronological records, like genealogies used in other Ancient Near East sources, and elsewhere in the bible, they are both symbolic and representative, symbolic in the number of generations used to represent the line from Adam through to Noah and his sons, and representative in terms of who is included. Taking them as literal and complete genealogies is missing several points.
Another question is what did the OT writers mean by ‘the whole world’? As far as I’ve been able to find out all references, maybe apart from poetic phrasing in the psalms, to the world mean the ANE, as in the area inhabited by the peoples of the OT, roughly stretching from the Black Sea area down to the Persian Gulf and North Africa.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Another question is what did the OT writers mean by ‘the whole world’?

What verse are you talking about?

 

[Tom 1]

What verse are you talking about?

Genesis 7:17-ff, vs 19 in particular

 

[Aman777]

What in the Bible or science supports mountains or the Earth being smaller than it is currently?

Regards, GBTG

Genesis 7:20 shows that the mountains on Adam's Earth were covered when the flood prevailed to a depth of 15 cubits or 22.5 feet. The present Earth is more than 29k feet high on top of Everest. That's God's Truth of the highest elevation on Adam's small flat Earth.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

 

[Aman777]

Another question is what did the OT writers mean by ‘the whole world’? As far as I’ve been able to find out all references, maybe apart from poetic phrasing in the psalms, to the world mean the ANE, as in the area inhabited by the peoples of the OT, roughly stretching from the Black Sea area down to the Persian Gulf and North Africa.

Your forgot about the flood which totally destroyed Adam's entire world. (Kosmos) ll Peter 3:6 The Scoffers of the last days make the same mistake.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Genesis 7:17-ff, vs 19 in particular

The word you are translating "whole" actually is the world all. And it qualifies the heavens or the atmosphere not the earth. We are told that the windows of heaven were opened at this time. This would have had an effect on all of the atmosphere of all of the earth.

 

[GBTG]

Then refute me Scripturally if you can. i can easily refute your religion since it's really easy to refute an ancient goat herder's religion, which many THINK is true. Only the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge of our time, can possibly understand Genesis according to the Lord.

Dan 12:4 ¶ But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Is your view true Scripturally, Scientifically and Historically...or is it a half truth?

There in lies the problem! I think you would agree that no scriptural rebuttal on my part would be considered accurate, because your mind is already made up as to what is correct because "you" are enlightened and know better. Espousing nonsense then and asking for rebuttal is like saying "1+1=egg, go ahead and prove me wrong."

God would not tell Moses to write Genesis so that only a few with "increased knowledge" could understand. Unless you think God to be a prankster, or chose only you, or select few to share His insights...

Goat herder or not I can recognize 1+1=egg as nonsense! Likewise, I understand that God intended the book of Genesis to everyone for salvation. Unless my "thinking" is wrong?

Regards, GBTG

 

[Tom 1]

Your forgot about the flood which totally destroyed Adam's entire world. (Kosmos) ll Peter 3:6 The Scoffers of the last days make the same mistake.

I’m not exactly sure what you mean but Peter’s understanding of what ‘the whole world’ was at that point wasn’t that much different. Check out some ancient world maps.

 

[Aman777]

There in lies the problem! I think you would agree that no scriptural rebuttal on my part would be considered accurate, because your mind is already made up as to what is correct because "you" are enlightened and know better. Espousing nonsense then and asking for rebuttal is like saying "1+1=egg, go ahead and prove me wrong."

Not so, since I invite anyone to discuss the agreement of Scripture, science and history, which I call God's Truth since it is the Truth in every way. Anything less is only a part truth. Is your understanding a part truth or God's Truth?

God would not tell Moses to write Genesis so that only a few with "increased knowledge" could understand. Unless you think God to be a prankster, or chose only you, or select few to share His insights...

In the last days God is going to pour out His Truth upon ALL flesh, which includes atheists, agnostics and phonies. Joe 2:28 Act 2:17 With your understanding, tell us HOW He can do that. Be specific and tell us HOW He can pour out His Spirit of Truth to the unbelievers on this message boards. I believe it will take the agreement of Scripture, science and history to convince the evolution worshipers here.

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Goat herder or not I can recognize 1+1=egg as nonsense! Likewise, I understand that God intended the book of Genesis to everyone for salvation. Unless my "thinking" is wrong?

The first 34 verses of Genesis tell us God's complete History of His Creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven, including events at the end of the present 6th Day. That's because the events of Gen 1:28-31 is Prophecy of things which will happen AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. Does your view agree with God's account? If not, then try to confirm it Scripturally.