• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Noah's Ark

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,654
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟119,577.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Science doesn't seem to be hampered by vast timescales. They report no missing links or processes and can account for even the smallest change.

That is just not true. In fact, I thought that even creationists had got around to admitting that "even the smallest changes" do happen. One step forward and two steps backward, it would seem.
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The narrative is presented as an actual event, not allegory, therefore I believe it was an actual event.

Stephen King's book "The Shining" is written as an event, not allegory. However it is not a real event. (And is there a place in Genesis where it explicitly says "This story is 100% actual and really happened"?
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Stephen King's book "The Shining" is written as an event, not allegory. However it is not a real event. (And is there a place in Genesis where it explicitly says "This story is 100% actual and really happened"?

So "The Shining" won't be found in the fiction section?
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Evolution must explain the origin of life

No it doesn't. The two are unrelated.

I wish Creationists would at least be willing to use the terminology CORRECTLY rather than making up their own (erroneous) definitions for the technical terms and then arguing against the erroneous definitions.

But, alas, that is apparently impossible for Creationists to do.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So are many parables. The Good Samaritan is such an example.

There's nothing unusual about a person helping another who is in trouble.

Parables are mainly taken from real life experiences.
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
It's as good an explanation as any.

Certainly for someone who fancies themselves superior to others yet probably doesn't want to do the heavy lifting of introspection and study. :)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

Subduction Zone

Regular Member
Dec 17, 2012
32,629
12,069
✟230,471.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
There's nothing unusual about a person helping another who is in trouble.

Parables are mainly taken from real life experiences.

Correct. Parables could be real life experiences. The flood is an example of myth or allegory.

Now we are getting somewhere. Neither happened, they both get a message across.
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
So "The Shining" won't be found in the fiction section?

OH, so you're saying that the Bible is TRUE because Barnes and Noble DOESN'T put it in the Fiction section?

Wow! (How did the Church Fathers know it was true millennia before B&N existed? Such are the mysteries of faith!)
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,812
11,607
Space Mountain!
✟1,370,549.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Stephen King's book "The Shining" is written as an event, not allegory. However it is not a real event. (And is there a place in Genesis where it explicitly says "This story is 100% actual and really happened"?

...from my position, you're both right and wrong at the same time. Instead, I think that taking a "Conrad Hyers" approach to dealing with the nature of the narrative of early Genesis is more plausible as an explanation. This approach would be to see early Genesis as a Cosmogonic statement of theology written as a historical account rather than a literal, scientifically patterned history like we'd write today.

p.s. ...and I think this extends even to the first 11 chapters of Genesis, including the account(s) of Noah's Flood.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
OH, so you're saying that the Bible is TRUE because Barnes and Noble DOESN'T put it in the Fiction section?

Wow! (How did the Church Fathers know it was true millennia before B&N existed? Such are the mysteries of faith!)

The "church fathers" (the prophets) recorded it in an unbroken succession for thousands of years. A cursory reading will reveal that the story is for believers, not unbelievers. Yet here on the forums we have unbelievers acting as biblical scholars.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: tyke
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
...from my position, you're both right and wrong at the same time. Instead, I think that taking a "Conrad Hyers" approach to dealing with the nature of the narrative of early Genesis is more plausible as an explanation. This approach would be to see early Genesis as a Cosmogonic statement of theology written as a historical account rather than a literal, scientifically patterned history like we'd write today.

p.s. ...and I think this extends even to the first 11 chapters of Genesis, including the account(s) of Noah's Flood.

The flood story is a pretty extravagant way of telling people to separate themselves from the rest of evil mankind and place themselves under God's protection, while he 'sets things right'.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,654
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟119,577.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
The "church fathers" (the prophets) recorded it in an unbroken succession for thousands of years. A cursory reading will reveal that the story is for believers, not unbelievers. Yet here on the forums we have unbelievers acting as biblical scholars.

Leaving aside the fact that "church fathers" usually refers to theologians writing during the first four or five centuries of Christianity, there is a gap of several centuries between the return from exile and the birth of Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
The "church fathers" (the prophets) recorded it in an unbroken succession for thousands of years.

Huh. What about all that stuff in Church History, you know, where they went through and decreed certain books true and certain books false, etc. How many gospels were left out because they didn't make the cut?

A cursory reading will reveal that the story is for believers, not unbelievers.

Do you realize how absurd that statement is? I mean really. If God wants all to believe you CANNOT make it that his TRUE WORD is meant only for those who start off believing.

Yet here on the forums we have unbelievers acting as biblical scholars.

It IS possible to read the Bible and history of the Faith even without being a Believer. YOU may not like the conclusions that are drawn, but the appropriate response is NOT "Oh well, you don't believe just everything you read so of COURSE you don't believe the Bible, unbeliever!"
 
Upvote 0

Obliquinaut

Сделайте Америку прекрасной
Jun 30, 2017
2,091
1,635
61
Washington
✟35,334.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Leaving aside the fact that "church fathers" usually refers to theologians writing during the first four or five centuries of Christianity

THANK YOU! (That was how I meant it here but I didn't feel up to debating with OWG. Why pester the Faithful with standard Christian history stuff?)
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,977
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,242.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You are still asking strange questions.

You are conflating abiogenesis and evolution. Abiogenesis is how the first life arose. It is similar but separate from evolution.

By 'conflating' a nut and a bolt the two, as one, make perfect sense.
 
Upvote 0