Noah's Ark

[OldWiseGuy]

THANK YOU! (That was how I meant it here but I didn't feel up to debating with OWG. Why pester the Faithful with standard Christian history stuff?)

The prophets knew it was true because they were there when it happened. The later writers (editors) accepted it on faith.

 

[Obliquinaut]

The prophets knew it was true because they were there when it happened. The later writers (editors) accepted it on faith.

But thankfully for YOU, you have Barnes and Noble's classification and shelving scheme! It is a modern day miracle of faith!

(I wish my point were able to get through sufficient for you to at least understand what I'm saying, but I also see that you have far too much on the line to allow that someone else might have found a hole in your logic.)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Correct. Parables could be real life experiences. The flood is an example of myth or allegory.

Now we are getting somewhere. Neither happened, they both get a message across.

The literary style is that of actual history regarding the flood. Even the parable of the Good Samaritan smacks of an actual event. Note that the benefactor was a "certain" man.

 

[Obliquinaut]

That is just not true. In fact, I thought that even creationists had got around to admitting that "even the smallest changes" do happen. One step forward and two steps backward, it would seem.

It is the "evolution" of Creationism. Most of them now allow descent with change but only so long as it stays at or below the species level. At least it's an improvement! Give it a while and they'll maybe expand.

This is why the God of the Gaps is usually considered poor theology. It ends up hurting the concept of God more than it helps the cause of God.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But thankfully for YOU, you have Barnes and Noble's classification and shelving scheme! It is a modern day miracle of faith!

(I wish my point were able to get through sufficient for you to at least understand what I'm saying, but I also see that you have far too much on the line to allow that someone else might have found a hole in your logic.)

You wish to destroy my faith. I get it.

 

[Obliquinaut]

The literary style is that of actual history regarding the flood.

Prove it. (I'm not saying you are wrong because I know the Bible often employs unique story telling styles. I'm just asking you WHAT SPECIFICALLY is it about it in the ancient Hebrew tradition that says it is "actual history").

(Don't worry, I doubt you will, but I am hopeful I can learn something from you).

 

[Obliquinaut]

You wish to destroy my faith. I get it.

DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, "CHRISTIAN".

I have said OVER AND OVER I do not wish to take anyone's faith from them. BUT if you make factual claims about the Bible I am more than willing to debate that.

This is a repeat and a WARNING:

DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST ME.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Prove it. (I'm not saying you are wrong because I know the Bible often employs unique story telling styles. I'm just asking you WHAT SPECIFICALLY is it about it in the ancient Hebrew tradition that says it is "actual history").

(Don't worry, I doubt you will, but I am hopeful I can learn something from you).

It's the details.

 

[Obliquinaut]

It's the details.

I knew you couldn't support your claim in any real detail. Sorry I asked.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, "CHRISTIAN".

I have said OVER AND OVER I do not wish to take anyone's faith from them. BUT if you make factual claims about the Bible I am more than willing to debate that.

This is a repeat and a WARNING:

DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST ME.

Oh I believe you may have what you think are my best interests at heart, but convincing me that the flood didn't happen isn't in my best interest spiritually. You are coming from the serpent's point of view (observation, experimentation; science), while mine is from revelation.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I knew you couldn't support your claim in any real detail. Sorry I asked.

Allegory usually doesn't contain the details that the flood story has. The Good Samaritan parable is also quite detailed. Most parables are actual familiar events that are used to convey spiritual truths. The flood story contains great spiritual truths, not the least of which is that God has destroyed the earth in the past and will do it again because of the evil of mankind.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It is the "evolution" of Creationism. Most of them now allow descent with change but only so long as it stays at or below the species level. At least it's an improvement! Give it a while and they'll maybe expand.

This is why the God of the Gaps is usually considered poor theology. It ends up hurting the concept of God more than it helps the cause of God.

Thank God I didn't go in for a 'god of the gaps'! (Whew!!)

 

[Obliquinaut]

Oh I believe you may have what you think are my best interests at heart, but convincing me that the flood didn't happen isn't in my best interest spiritually. You are coming from the serpent's point of view (observation, experimentation; science), while mine is from revelation.

My apologies. And I mean that honestly.

(You can apologize for bearing false witness against me if you like, but I'm certain your conscience is clear and there's no need. You have the way the Truth.)

I will put you on ignore now so that I no longer endanger your immortal soul. I would never want to do that.

You are free to your beliefs and apparently I am not free to mine lest they hurt yours in some way.

Again, my apologies and hopefully you have not lost anything in your faith journey because of my intense level of evil and my work for "the serpent".

(And I actually mean that. I am kind of scared that I have somehow hurt your faith. I wish you the best of luck in attacking science that I find valuable and I hope no one attacks your faith the requires it.)

 

[Obliquinaut]

I will have to bow out because my evil comments (on behalf of the "Serpent") are hurting OldWiseGuy's faith and I do not want that on my conscience.

It's been fun, up until it appeared that I was actually harming someone's faith.

And, of course, I've obviously harmed AV as well with my questioning the historicity of Jesus and my ability to be flexible on this point.

Science appears to be quite evil if I go by what happens on here and that makes me sad. But evil should be clear of the safe spaces carved out for faith.

Thanks!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

To Obliquinaut (who has put me on ignore).

I have been in a defensive position throughout this entire discussion. And don't worry, you have not harmed my faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

I will put you on ignore now so that I no longer endanger your immortal soul. I would never want to do that.

Wow.

Just over two weeks and you put someone on IGNORE.

Your prerogative.

Some people carry their emotions on their sleeve.

 

[VirOptimus]

When such a 'theory' is so fantastic I call it magic.

I know learning is hard. But if you do, you wont have to be ignorant no more.

The ToE only explains the facts and is a very robust and well established scientific theory describing physical reality. Its foolish not to accept it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I will have to bow out because my evil comments (on behalf of the "Serpent") are hurting OldWiseGuy's faith and I do not want that on my conscience.

It's been fun, up until it appeared that I was actually harming someone's faith.

And, of course, I've obviously harmed AV as well with my questioning the historicity of Jesus and my ability to be flexible on this point.

Science appears to be quite evil if I go by what happens on here and that makes me sad. But evil should be clear of the safe spaces carved out for faith.

Thanks!

Actually, I think we can extol the virtues and benefits of science AND hold to faith in God, at the same time. Strange that, isn't it?!!

 

[AV1611VET]

And, of course, I've obviously harmed AV as well with my questioning the historicity of Jesus and my ability to be flexible on this point.

Not gonna happen, chief.

I've been here 286 times longer than you have, and been through it many times.

Why do you think I pwned you so fast with Wikipedia?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I will have to bow out because my evil comments (on behalf of the "Serpent") are hurting OldWiseGuy's faith and I do not want that on my conscience.

It's been fun, up until it appeared that I was actually harming someone's faith.

And, of course, I've obviously harmed AV as well with my questioning the historicity of Jesus and my ability to be flexible on this point.

Science appears to be quite evil if I go by what happens on here and that makes me sad. But evil should be clear of the safe spaces carved out for faith.

Thanks!

...and I'm actually glad you, and other atheists, are here for discussion. It makes things interesting...