Noah's Ark

[AV1611VET]

You can be banned for posting historical pictures on CF?

Obliquinaut, are you planning on sticking around CF for any length of time I hope?

If so, would you like to be a site supporter, compliments of moi?

It will get rid of those ads you see, and you won't have a delay of 20 seconds between posts.

 

[Obliquinaut]

It depends upon your claims. If AV had posted the pictures you posted saying "this is Christianity justifying itself" he would have gotten into trouble.

The fact that it is easy for a Christian to lay 9/11 at the feet of all of Islam while not allowing even one "bad" action to be laid at the feet of Christianity is a sight to behold.

It is imperative to protect one's God. God so often seems incapable of protecting Himself (so, in extreme cases, his followers are sometimes led to genocide as in Saul's case, on the word of God's Prophet, Samuel or any other example from the Bible itself).

It is the fundamental flaw of all religions in a sense. Anyone who worships an all powerful God but needs to defend that God themselves at the point of a sword would seem to be acting irrationally.

That being said, I am glad that AV feels that Christians doing evil in God's name are in error and were doing it despite the bible. That is good to see. I do wonder, though, how he squares the circle of 1 Sam 15:3.

But it is good to know that today's Christians like AV and others would never condone such horrors take in the name of their God.

 

[AV1611VET]

Just as many Muslims say 9/11 was done in spite of Islam.

Did you make that up, or do you actually know a Muslim(s) that claim that?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Obliquinaut, are you planning on sticking around CF for any length of time I hope?

If so, would you like to be a site supporter, compliments of moi?

It will get rid of those ads you see, and you won't have a delay of 20 seconds between posts.

Thank you but right now I'm kind of in a lull at work and can dedicate some time to this, but when things pick back up I might not be able to dedicate enough attention to the site. And I'm inured to ads and delays...I've gotten quite used to the Intarwebs.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Did you make that up, or do you actually know a Muslim(s) that claim that?

I've heard it countless times in the intervening 16 years. I will admit, though, that I don't know a lot of muslims personally (or if I do, I don't necessarily know they are muslims as I don't usually get into a lot of religious discussions with coworkers or neighbors). But I've heard MANY muslims interviewed who say Al Qaeda (and now other extremist groups like ISIS) are NOT speaking for Islam in any way.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is good to see. I do wonder, though, how he squares the circle of 1 Sam 15:3.

From Adam Clarke's commentary:

Nothing could justify such an exterminating decree but the absolute authority of God. This was given: all the reasons of it we do not know; but this we know well, The Judge of all the earth doeth right. This war was not for plunder, for God commanded that all the property as well as all the people should be destroyed.

 

[Obliquinaut]

No.No."Unknown pills"?

You don't know what they are?

I posted pills, instead of others, because the others were too graphic.

It would normally be possible to identify pills by their shape, color and markings but when I do a quick search I can't find any that just have "MF" on one side. There are some with MF and either a 1 or 2 and some have a marking on the other side as well. But we don't have access to the other side in that picture.

What was the source of the photo?

 

[AV1611VET]

Thank you but right now I'm kind of in a lull at work and can dedicate some time to this, but when things pick back up I might not be able to dedicate enough attention to the site. And I'm inured to ads and delays...I've gotten quite used to the Intarwebs.

Okay.

If you change your mind, I'll be around.

LORD willing!

 

[Albion]

Both the picture and the Ten Commandments monument itself.

The picture might be. But that doesn't mean it's covered by the first Commandment.

 

[Obliquinaut]

From Adam Clarke's commentary:

Thanks. That is, of course, not really an explanation. Just that God commanded it via Samuel. To say the explanation was just that God has the right to do so owing to His Authority really only raises the spectre of truly awful theology.

If I were working on the Euthyphro Dilemma using that reasoning it sounds like it comes down firmly on the side of "whatever God does is Right, amen". Which means that "right" and "wrong" are quite fungible owing to God's whims at the time.

He made it "right" to kill innocent children and non-combatants in that situation but it is not universally right to do so according to Christians.

So if were to ask a Christian "Is murder morally right?" The only true answer I would get is "Well, today it isn't! But check back tomorrow!"

 

[AV1611VET]

I've heard it countless times in the intervening 16 years. I will admit, though, that I don't know a lot of muslims personally (or if I do, I don't necessarily know they are muslims as I don't usually get into a lot of religious discussions with coworkers or neighbors). But I've heard MANY muslims interviewed who say Al Qaeda (and now other extremist groups like ISIS) are NOT speaking for Islam in any way.

Okay ... I was just wondering.

It's a pet peeve with me that our newsmen call these guys "radical muslims."

In my opinion, they are just being true to their word (the Koran), and should be called "fundamental muslims."

A "radical muslim" ... to me ... is one that would help a little old lady across the street or plant flowers.

And although Shoko Asahara impressed me with his Aum Shinrikyo dedication to the god of destruction (IOW, he wasn't a hypocrite), I feel they should impress him with the death penalty.

 

[AV1611VET]

What was the source of the photo?

It's the abortion pill.

In other words, scientists, with their willingness to Arab phone "child in the womb" to "fetus," started a holocaust that is still going on today.

Scientists are responsible for more deaths than all the wars on earth put together.

 

[AV1611VET]

Just that God commanded it via Samuel. To say the explanation was just that God has the right to do so owing to His Authority really only raises the spectre of truly awful theology.

You have to realize two things:

1. This was a time of war.

2. Our Commander-in-chief is omniscient and knows what's best.

The Amalekites were elite desert warriors that were skilled in desert combat.

Here's a little write-up on them from my Bible dictionary:

Amalekite
a tribe that dwelt in Arabia Petraea, between the Dead Sea and the Red Sea. They were not the descendants of Amalek, the son of Eliphaz, for they existed in the days of Abraham Ge 14:7 They were probably a tribe that migrated from the shores of the Persian Gulf and settled in Arabia. "They dwelt in the land of the south...from Havilah until thou comest to Shur" Nu 13:29; 1Sa 15:7 They were a pastoral, and hence a nomadic race. Their kings bore the hereditary name of Agag Nu 24:7; 1Sa 15:8 They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through their territory De 25:18 attacking them at Rephidim Ex 17:8-13 compare De 25:17; 1Sa 15:2 They afterwards attacked the Israelites at Hormah Nu 14:45 We read of them subsequently as in league with the Moabites Jg 3:13 and the Midianites Jg 6:3 Saul finally desolated their territory and destroyed their power 1Sa 14:48; 15:3 and David recovered booty from them 1Sa 30:18-20 In the Babylonian inscriptions they are called Sute, in those of Egypt Sittiu, and the Amarna tablets include them under the general name of Khabbati, or "plunderers."

 

[Obliquinaut]

It's the abortion pill.

In other words, scientists, with their willingness to Arab phone "child in the womb" to "fetus," started a holocaust that is still going on today.

Scientists are responsible for more deaths than all the wars on earth put together.

Ahh, then I stand corrected.

But the "abortion" pill really isn't an abortifacient if I recall, but rather keeps the egg from implanting in the uterine wall (the actual start of pregnancy). Some "EC" (emergency contraception pills) appear aimed at stopping ovulation. But this is not my area of expertise.

The details are here from Princeton University

 

[Obliquinaut]

You have to realize two things:

1. This was a time of war.

That sounds like relativist morality. That morality is dictated by the events around it. So is there a time when genocide is allowed? What if someone conducts a genocide and claims that God commanded him to do it? How will you know whether to prosecute that guy or making a saint?

2. Our Commander-in-chief is omniscient and knows what's best.

By definition, of course. But that would make God's commands confusing all around. God commands that we should not commit murder (being defined as the killing of innocent people), but in 1Sam15:3 God (through Samuel) commands people to murder.

If murder is "ok" for God (presumably he is allowed to do whatever He wants to) then why would he ask his creation (people) to do it on His behalf? Wouldn't that just muddy the waters?

The Amalekites were elite desert warriors that were skilled in desert combat.

Even these ones?

(That is pretty scary and no doubt the armies of ancient Israel would run screaming in terror from them....)

Amalekite
a tribe that dwelt in Arabia Petraea, between the Dead Sea and the Red Sea. They were not the descendants of Amalek, the son of Eliphaz, for they existed in the days of Abraham Ge 14:7 They were probably a tribe that migrated from the shores of the Persian Gulf and settled in Arabia. "They dwelt in the land of the south...from Havilah until thou comest to Shur" Nu 13:29; 1Sa 15:7 They were a pastoral, and hence a nomadic race. Their kings bore the hereditary name of Agag Nu 24:7; 1Sa 15:8 They attempted to stop the Israelites when they marched through their territory De 25:18 attacking them at Rephidim Ex 17:8-13 compare De 25:17; 1Sa 15:2 They afterwards attacked the Israelites at Hormah Nu 14:45 We read of them subsequently as in league with the Moabites Jg 3:13 and the Midianites Jg 6:3 Saul finally desolated their territory and destroyed their power 1Sa 14:48; 15:3 and David recovered booty from them 1Sa 30:18-20 In the Babylonian inscriptions they are called Sute, in those of Egypt Sittiu, and the Amarna tablets include them under the general name of Khabbati, or "plunderers."

It seems to have left out mention of the terrifying amalekite infant death squads:

AIEEEEEEE!!!!

 

[Subduction Zone]

The picture might be. But that doesn't mean it's covered by the first Commandment.

Actually it is covered by the Second Commandment.

 

[AV1611VET]

By definition, of course. But that would make God's commands confusing all around.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

This heavy sentence was pronounced against the Amalekites long ago ...

Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

... and renewed at the entrance of the Israelites into Canaan, with a charge not to forget it.

Deuteronomy 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

The order is now given to put it into execution.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

God wasn't kidding when He said ...

Ecclesiastes 3:3a A time to kill, and a time to heal;

 

[Obliquinaut]

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

This heavy sentence was pronounced against the Amalekites long ago ...

You don't have to convince me that God has every right to treat His creation exactly as he wants. He can and sometimes does hold guilty the succeeding generations of a particular sinner!

I completely agree that the God of the Old Testament can do whatever it is He wants to do.

And I'm also saying (out loud) that such a God that would command genocide is not a God worthy of worship. He is a God worthy of abject terror and fear.

God wasn't kidding when He said ...

Ecclesiastes 3:3a A time to kill, and a time to heal;

So back to my earlier question: if someone committed a genocide and later told you that God commanded him to do so, how would know he wasn't speaking truth?

(Don't worry, I'm certain you have an exegesis that will get God off the hook. Special "unstated" portions of the Bible or a random chapter and verse that says one thing but all the people in the "know" will be able to read it as the special hidden coded message that allows them to make God into whatever it is they truly want Him to be! It's a MIRACLE!)

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's the abortion pill.

In other words, scientists, with their willingness to Arab phone "child in the womb" to "fetus," started a holocaust that is still going on today.

Scientists are responsible for more deaths than all the wars on earth put together.

Sorry, but one has to cherry pick the Bible to support an anti-abortion stance while ignoring rather clear verses to the contrary.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Sorry, but one has to cherry pick the Bible to support an anti-abortion stance while ignoring rather clear verses to the contrary.

Perhaps the key is to get a genetic test on the fetus and see if it has any AMALEKITE genetic markers. At which point all bets are off!