Noah's Ark

[Obliquinaut]

Those would be the "epochs" mentioned. And, are you saying the canyon escaped sudden destructive events altogether?

I was replying to your flawed assessment of the sedimentology in the layers (before the flood). You characterized them as sudden destructive events. Which clearly (anyone who has even a nodding acquaintance with sedimentology would see this) they are not necessarily all related to. It would extremely hard to imagine a layer of well layered shale that is due to a "sudden destructive event". All you have to do is know how small clay size particles are and how long it takes them to settle out of calm water (significant turbulence will keep them suspended).

 

[CherubRam]

I have looked. There is none. It appears that you made a claim that you could not support.

In a discussion it is not wise to go off half cocked.

Right!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Lets put aside all the problems and misconception you have about the physics of a worldwide flood for a second.

Where are all the water that would have been required?

The water came from the seas and returned to the seas.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Noah's flood wouldn't have presented evidence of a single flood, but of many local floods with differing evidence left behind; just what you describe.

And you would have ZERO places where there is "sub-aerial" deposition anywhere on earth. And guess what? There are such things (dune deposits, etc.). So show us the exact point in the geologic record where there is nothing but water-based deposition that has no instances of non-water-based deposition contemporarily on the globe.

Science has never constructed a flood model using the actual bible narrative (sadly neither have many believers), something I believe they are loathe to do. 'Pandora's box' and all that.

Science has, however, constructed a model of what flood deposits look like. It isn't as simple as most Biblical Flood Theorists think.

AND we even have a good analogue of a single point in time that shows global deposition as a market bed. It is the K-T boundary. It is marked across the globe where below it one group of animals dominates, above it another with a near total absence of the older ones. And there's even a chemical marker (Iridium content) that shows up! It's pretty amazing.

So if you have a Global Flood you should be able to easily find a marker that is incontrovertible. But you don't.

 

[Obliquinaut]

The water came from the seas and returned to the seas.

Are you familiar with the concept of "mass balance"? It means you start with so much water and you wind up with the same amount of water. How do you get it to cover the earth over all the mountains without ADDING water?

 

[VirOptimus]

The water came from the seas and returned to the seas.

There is quite simply not enough water in the seas to cover the earth. So no, try again.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I was replying to your flawed assessment of the sedimentology in the layers (before the flood).

epoch

1. a period of time in history or a person's life, typically one marked by notable events or particular characteristics:

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is quite simply not enough water in the seas to cover the earth. So no, try again.

With respect...are you serious?

 

[VirOptimus]

With respect...are you serious?

I am, yes. Are you? Can you calculate the water needed?

 

[VirOptimus]

With respect...are you serious?

How much water would be needed for Noah’s Flood? – Andrew L. Seidel – Medium

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you familiar with the concept of "mass balance"? It means you start with so much water and you wind up with the same amount of water. How do you get it to cover the earth over all the mountains without ADDING water?

Easy for God. He simply "broke up the great fountains of the deep". Even a small upwelling of the oceanic crust would cause massive flooding over most of the earth. Science has described deep earth magma 'hotspots' that suddenly and inexplicably get hotter and cause upwelling, notably causing volcanic activity. Picture an enormous upwelling of the sea beds spilling the seawater over the land. The corresponding sinking of the land under the weigh of the water would heighten/deepen the flood waters, much like the Amazon basin sinks under the weight of it's annual flooding, only much greater. Earth's crust is quite flexible as any geologist will attest.

It is even possible that God didn't have to anything except anticipate that great geologic event that was going to happen anyway as a result of past catastrophic geological events, perhaps a 'harmonic wave' in the earth's interior from a previous event.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am, yes. Are you? Can you calculate the water needed?

See post #131

 

[VirOptimus]

Easy for God. He simple "broke up the great fountains of the deep". Even a small upwelling of the oceanic crust would cause massive flooding over most of the earth. Science has described deep earth magma 'hotspots' that suddenly and inexplicably get hotter and cause upwelling, notably causing volcanic activity. Picture an enormous upwelling of the sea beds spilling the seawater over the land. The corresponding sinking of the land under the weigh of the water would heighten/deepen the flood waters, much like the Amazon basin sinks under the weight of it's annual flooding, only much greater. Earth's crust is quite flexible as any geologist will attest.

Nope, that doesnt work, see post 130.

Learn basic maths and physics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The water came from the seas and returned to the seas.

Nope. You seem to have forgotten that according to the story, even the tallest mountain was covered. That would take more than 5 more miles of water over the entire Earth.

But the flood does fail at almost every single level.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Right!

Then why did you do so?

 

[Obliquinaut]

epoch

1. a period of time in history or a person's life, typically one marked by notable events or particular characteristics:

That does not make your point correct. It merely seems to show you are not tracking on what I'm saying. I'm saying that one does not usually deposit a layer of SHALE in a "sudden and destructive" manner.

Sudden and destructive does NOT lead to shale deposition. CALM AND UNDISTURBED FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, leads to shale deposition.

Similar for many limestones as well.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Easy for God. He simply "broke up the great fountains of the deep". Even a small upwelling of the oceanic crust would cause massive flooding

Well, as long as you are using MIRACLES and not relying on basic science. Much of the water in the deep crust or even mantle would be chemically integrated into the crystal structure of the minerals. Usually not in the form of just a big ol' "pool" of water.

But if you use MIRACLES why bother with trying to explain anything at all? If your answer is just "God waved His hand and it was done", then why bother with looking at what the physical evidence is?

(Of course then you are left to explain why God seems to have provided us with evidence that speaks to the OPPOSITE of what many BIblical LIteralists claim happened).

over most of the earth. Science has described deep earth magma 'hotspots' that suddenly and inexplicably get hotter and cause upwelling,

Upwelling of MAGMA. Hot molten rock. Not quite the same thing.

notably causing volcanic activity. Picture an enormous upwelling of the sea beds spilling the seawater over the land

That's not how it happens. Visit Hawaii sometime. You can even see pictures on line of what comes out of volcanoes over a hotspot: molten rock at thousands of degrees. (Sure there's some water in there and water vapor, but it isn't like it's flooding Hawaii with water.)

It is even possible that God didn't have to anything except anticipate that great geologic event that was going to happen anyway as a result of past catastrophic geological events, perhaps a 'harmonic wave' in the earth's interior from a previous event.

And yet He seems to have provided us only physical evidence of the OPPOSITE of what Biblical Literalists claim. Why would He do that?

 

[AV1611VET]

I agree, however, Creation Science and Ken Ham says it does.

I'm really not knocking Mr. Nye or Mr. Ham, I'm knocking the video.

Else I'd say Creation Science and Ken Ham are wrong.

I'll say what's wrong with the video, and I'll let inquiring minds find out who believes what.

 

[VirOptimus]

I'm really not knocking Mr. Nye or Mr. Ham, I'm knocking the video.

Else I'd say Creation Science and Ken Ham are wrong.

I'll say what's wrong with the video, and I'll let inquiring minds find out who believes what.

The problem being that you have no idea what is the correct science.

You only have belief.

 

[AV1611VET]

The ark would have still been hit by many of the same forces as the Wyoming, and the Wyoming needed heavy duty pumps to stay afloat. Far worse weather than the Wyoming ever hit would have sunk the Ark.

Do you remember me telling you this?

I can see the Ark hitting a ten quintillion megaton mine and setting it off.

Noah: Did you hear something?
Wife: Probably just an elephant.

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