Noah's Ark

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I can understand the Bible just as well as you if not better.

........... not according to you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

........... not according to you.

Wrong, but why do you say that?

You do not have to believe the Bible to understand it. In fact it has been shown that the average atheist tend to have a better understanding of the Bible than the average Christian. I am sure that there are going to be some variation. But assuming that someone does not understand the Bible because they are an atheist is an unwarranted assumption.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Wrong, but why do you say that?

You do not have to believe the Bible to understand it. In fact it has been shown that the average atheist tend to have a better understanding of the Bible than the average Christian. I am sure that there are going to be some variation. But assuming that someone does not understand the Bible because they are an atheist is an unwarranted assumption.

Have you never even , ever, read the Bible ?
All of your statements contradict YHWH'S WORD.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have you never even , ever, read the Bible ?
All of your statements contradict YHWH'S WORD.

Sure I have seen and read a Bible, and no, not all of my statements contradict the Bible.. Only some of them. And you keep forgetting, calling it "God's word" is a claim that is hard to defend, even using the Bible itself. You do not seem to have a firm grasp on the subject.

At any rate, I would much rather discuss why we know that a worldwide flood never happened. How much science education have you had?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Sure I have seen and read a Bible, and no, not all of my statements contradict the Bible.. Only some of them. And you keep forgetting, calling it "God's word" is a claim that is hard to defend, even using the Bible itself. You do not seem to have a firm grasp on the subject.

At any rate, I would much rather discuss why we know that a worldwide flood never happened. How much science education have you had?

As long as you reject YHWH, Y'SHUA, and YHWH'S WORD,
there is nothing you can contribute of any value.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As long as you reject YHWH, Y'SHUA, and YHWH'S WORD,
there is nothing you can contribute of any value.

That is a lame excuse on your part. It appears that you know that you are wrong and you are running away.

You have made claims and have not even offered to support them. You are not right just because you say that you are. We really are not supposed to discuss theology here anyway so let's stick to the Flood story and why we know that it is just a story.

 

[Skreeper]

As long as you reject YHWH, Y'SHUA, and YHWH'S WORD,
there is nothing you can contribute of any value.

Maybe you can pray for your God to reveal himself to us. But as long as he is playing eternal hide and seek the only rational position is to disbelieve. And when he reveals himself he better has some good explanations for all the horrible atrocities he commited otherwhise I won't worship him even when he reveals himself to me. I would even argue that I'd be obligated to oppose him with any means necessary.

 

[AV1611VET]

And when he reveals himself he better has some good explanations for all the horrible atrocities he commited otherwhise I won't worship him even when he reveals himself to me. I would even argue that I'd be obligated to oppose him with any means necessary.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Revelation 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

We call that the Final Battle.

After Jesus reigns on the earth for 1000 years, we will be attacked by a final concentrated army of haters.

And He will just handwave them away.

I pray you're not in that army.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Have you never even , ever, read the Bible ?
All of your statements contradict YHWH'S WORD.

I have read the Bible.

I've read some really great stuff in the Bible, some truth and beauty, and some truly abhorrent and horrible things. It has complexity and simplicity. It has literal stories and allegory.

In other words: it looks like a "book" written by countless HUMAN individuals over hundreds and hundreds of years for a wide variety of theological and political agendae. And like all such things it contains poetry and prose.

When I see someone read it literally in every single part I feel that it really robs it of any sort of actual "interesting" aspects. If anything it renders it dull and only broken up by levels of horrific violence.

 

[Obliquinaut]

As long as you reject YHWH, Y'SHUA, and YHWH'S WORD,
there is nothing you can contribute of any value.

You forgot two important words: no value...to you.

 

[Obliquinaut]

We call that the Final Battle.

After Jesus reigns on the earth for 1000 years, we will be attacked by a final concentrated army of haters.

And He will just handwave them away.

I pray you're not in that army.

But Skreeper makes some good points:

1. For some of us God has remained hidden. And for us it would be irrational to believe in God. If one believes God exists it would be hard to imagine a God that would allow this "hidden" nature to exist for some but not for others.

2. Even if God reveals Himself, then why is it bad to ask for an explanation for things like 1 Samuel 15:3?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

1. For some of us God has remained hidden. And for us it would be irrational to believe in God. If one believes God exists it would be hard to imagine a God that would allow this "hidden" nature to exist for some but not for others.

God reveals himself today through the calling out of the church, and it is quite exclusive.

2. Even if God reveals Himself, then why is it bad to ask for an explanation for things like 1 Samuel 15:3?

No problem here. God wanted revenge for the cowardly murder of the young and feeble of Israel by the Amalekites. He wanted them exterminated so they wouldn't cause problems in the future as well. Sadly Israel didn't kill them all and had to contend with them ever since.

God has not directed any to repeat this type of slaughter in the modern era (although such slaughter still occurs).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But let's get back to the topic at hand. Do you know why we know that there was no flood of Noah?

I think you know that the traditional version of the flood isn't true, as do I. But does that mean there was no "flood of Noah"? Unbelievers have constructed straw man arguments that are easily explained, and the rest will fall as well in time.

 

[Obliquinaut]

God reveals himself today through the calling out of the church, and it is quite exclusive.

Kinda like Studio 54?

No problem here. God wanted revenge for the cowardly murder of the young and feeble of Israel by the Amalekites.

By asking for the slaughter of innocent infants of Amelek. Don't worry, I've heard all the justifications. I'm sure that in some weird way it makes sense to the truly devout. When Genocide =/= Genocide.

He wanted them exterminated so they wouldn't cause problems in the future as well. Sadly Israel didn't kill them all and had to contend with them ever since.

Correct. God had to punish Saul because he failed to kill every living thing (even cattle!)

I'm sure that somehow makes God a loving God of all the People, but I sure can't see how that works. Especially for the Amalekite infants.

God has not directed any to repeat this type of slaughter in the modern era (although such slaughter still occurs).

So God gets a couple "passes" for genocidal slaughter in the past? (I mean you can't hold Him to some unrealistic standard of "zero genocides on his command" can you?)

 

[Obliquinaut]

We are still studying the story, so you have more work to do.

This has been explained to you repeatedly. If you are still doing work, then fine! Let us know the minute you find evidence or anything to support your hypothesis.

GEOLOGIST studied it for a LOT and ultimately gave up on about 300 years ago. And in the intervening 300 years no evidence whatsoever has arisen for it.

(Thankfully for your hypothesis you claimed there would be no real evidence, so you are staking your belief on an event with no evidence. This is, of course, NOT science, but religion. So why do you like to try to invoke science when you talk about how there would be no evidence?)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Kinda like Studio 54?



By asking for the slaughter of innocent infants of Amelek. Don't worry, I've heard all the justifications. I'm sure that in some weird way it makes sense to the truly devout. When Genocide =/= Genocide.



Correct. God had to punish Saul because he failed to kill every living thing (even cattle!)

I'm sure that somehow makes God a loving God of all the People, but I sure can't see how that works. Especially for the Amalekite infants.



So God gets a couple "passes" for genocidal slaughter in the past? (I mean you can't hold Him to some unrealistic standard of "zero genocides on his command" can you?)

Perhaps you should read the bible. Lot's of good information about God, Israel, in those times.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Perhaps you should read the bible. Lot's of good information about God, Israel, in those times.

I've read the Bible.

(But I understand that it scares you that I might not have arrived at the same interpretation as you have.)

 

[Obliquinaut]

I love how Christians assume that the only people who've read the Bible are those who agree with them 100%. LOL.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This has been explained to you repeatedly. If you are still doing work, then fine! Let us know the minute you find evidence or anything to support your hypothesis.

GEOLOGIST studied it for a LOT and ultimately gave up on about 300 years ago. And in the intervening 300 years no evidence whatsoever has arisen for it.

(Thankfully for your hypothesis you claimed there would be no real evidence, so you are staking your belief on an event with no evidence. This is, of course, NOT science, but religion. So why do you like to try to invoke science when you talk about how there would be no evidence?)

There's always more to learn. I'm happy for those whose mind is made up, but mine isn't. I invoke science only because God uses the natural world and it's laws for his purposes. He doesn't 'poof' everything into compliance with his will. He uses man and the earth to do so.

I've said often that a better flood model is needed than the paintings of medieval artists.

Why do I believe in the flood when hardly anyone else does? It's a gateway belief. Close that door and I exclude myself from many beneficial beliefs. So I choose to believe the story, and approach it's details not with skepticism but with ideas about how it occurred. It's fun and fascinating (and doesn't cost anything).

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I've read the Bible.

(But I understand that it scares you that I might not have arrived at the same interpretation as you have.)

Doesn't bother me at all. Some of my best friends are unbelievers.