Noah's Ark

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think it is more probable that the many stories of great floods originated with Noah's flood.

Only because you already believe that, not because you have actual reason to.

But the fact is that the gilgamesh story is older then the noah story.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I would have the courage to provide moral leadership.

Theses atrocities committed in the name of God were strictly human in nature. The authors of the scripture justified their behavior by suggesting God lead them to commit these crimes.

Why go along with a group that (sinfully and in error) calls all that God does "crimes"?

What advantage or comfort or support do they give you ?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Hang a calender on the wall,
and throw darts at random,
to simulate the effects of mankind with all of its "wisdom", so-called.
(actually,
probably,
this would produce better results than society has so far)

Ow yes... That's what that nobel prize was for.... "the darts throwing method"!

yep, makes perfect sense.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oh c'mon, just call it immoral. Most scientists go into the lab in order to have pansexual perverted orgies and if they get any science done it's only because they had to take a breather from all the sin.

Most scientists go into their labs because it's more fun than working (not that there's anything wrong with that).

 

[Obliquinaut]

How were these settlements dated? Regardless; the flood reached everyone.

At 12,000 years old I'd hazard a guess that 14-C dating was used. (We don't have a problem with that do we?)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Only because you already believe that, not because you have actual reason to.

But the fact is that the gilgamesh story is older then the noah story.

Who dated that story?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

True, and the more people and events that 'predate' Genesis the more likely people will be deceived. Great tactic. We only need to observe the incredible changes that take place in our own lifetimes to realize the speed with which societal and environmental changes occur.

I see you are still in denial of the fact that there are settlements in the andes that predate the timeframe you suggest as well as them being on a higher altitude then your flood story needs.

So, is it easy to breath with your head lodged in the ground like that?

 

[Obliquinaut]

Most scientists go into their labs because it's more fun than working (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Sounds like you haven't spent any time working in a lab.

But that being said it is kinda true. Work as a scientist is usually undertaken as a passion and less as a drudgery so it is definitely more fun that mere drudge work sitting at a computer all day.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

At 12,000 years old I'd hazard a guess that 14-C dating was used. (We don't have a problem with that do we?)

Let's find out for sure.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Who dated that story?

Written history and archeology.

The epic of gilgamesh predates genesis by multiple centuries. More then a millenia even, actually

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I see you are still in denial of the fact that there are settlements in the andes that predate the timeframe you suggest as well as them being on a higher altitude then your flood story needs.

So, is it easy to breath with your head lodged in the ground like that?

The dates have only been suggested, not proven (here).

 

[AV1611VET]

ANY TIME YOU WALK OUTSIDE. You just have to look down at the ground. It will tell you a lot.

Ya ... "Watch where you're going, stupid!"

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sounds like you haven't spent any time working in a lab.

But that being said it is kinda true. Work as a scientist is usually undertaken as a passion and less as a drudgery so it is definitely more fun that mere drudge work sitting at a computer all day.

Such drudge work is necessary, but I'd rather be in my wood shop (my 'lab').

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The dates have only been suggested, not proven (here).

Please... we all know that whatever link we post, you'll just end up questioning the dating methods and pretend that they aren't trustworthy.

Just do it already, saves us the trouble of doing the research to dig up the relevant citations.

 

[KWCrazy]

But the fact is that the gilgamesh story is older then the noah story.

No. The Gilgamesh story seems to have been written down first. The story of the great Flood would have been re-told over the generations until Moses under God's inspiration recorded it as it actually happened. Moses was educated but was not the first human to know how to read and write.
Winston S. Churchill wrote a book called "The second World War" in 1948.
Shelby Foote wrote a book call "The Civil War" in 1986.
That proves that the Civil War happened AFTER WWII, doesn't it?
After all, the WWII book was written first.

Most societies in the world have a flood story; not because they were so awe stricken by Gilgamesh that they copied in in their own style, but because the event actually happen.
None of this matters to you. You'll continue to use the same excuse because it helps you justify your rejection of the Scriptures.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

As an 'aside' in this discussion I want to point out to you atheists the importance of belief. I am very comfortable with my belief in the bible stories. How they happen is really more speculation than proof. A believer believes often in spite of evidence to the contrary. When weighed against the disbelief of the world and the consequence that arise from that I choose the incredible benefits of belief, albeit sometimes without proof (that is called faith). The flood story is just a footnote in the huge body of beliefs that Christians hold, beliefs that govern our every thought and action, and often take us out of harm's way; something the world could emulate.

You are here on these forums not to help anyone in any way, but to tear down our beliefs. Shame on you.

 

[KWCrazy]

Ow yes... That's what that nobel prize was for.... "the darts throwing method"!

The Nobel Prize means nothing anymore. You get it for being liberal.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The dates have only been suggested, not proven (here).

Ok. I went on a fool's errand and digged up a link to an article concerning a similar case mentioning the dating methods. It's carbon dating, off course, and it concerns a case of a 9000-year old site. There is also mention of human remains of that time, along with human remains several thousand years younger. DNA was extracted from them and cross-referenced with the carbon dating as well as the currently understood timeframes of human migration into the americas.

You may stick your head back in the sand now.

EDIT: lol! just noticed I forgot to link the article i'll see if I can find it again
EDIT2: here it is Bone DNA reveals humanity’s trek into South America

 

[KWCrazy]

You are here on these forums not to help anyone in any way, but to tear down our beliefs. Shame on you.

Exactly.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No.

Yes.

The Gilgamesh story seems to have been written down first.

Not "seems". It WAS written down first. More then 1500 years earlier, in fact.

Winston S. Churchill wrote a book called "The second World War" in 1948.
Shelby Foote wrote a book call "The Civil War" in 1986.
That proves that the Civil War happened AFTER WWII, doesn't it?
After all, the WWII book was written first.

The difference is that without either book, there is plenty of contemporary and independend evidence of both wars.

Whereas judaism doesn't show up in the historical record until more then a millenia after the epic of gilgamesh was written down.

Most societies in the world have a flood story;

The amount is far lesser then you think.
Having said that, it's not that surprising, considering that ancient civilisations / settlements traditionally always settled near coasts (fertile ground, access to sea food,...)

Floods happen all the time.
I can imagine being a sheep herder in the bronze age, not knowing anything about the forces of nature and "seeing" the supernatural everywhere, and thinking that some god is displeased with me when a randomly occuring tsunami washes away all my loved ones.

not because they were so awe stricken by Gilgamesh that they copied in in their own style, but because the event actually happen.

You mean like when Jesus really did get born on the 25th of december? Ow, oeps ... no... that was just incorporated into christianity to more easily sway the pagans who considered the winter solstice a holy period.

It's not like there aren't any precedents of such cultural influence.
Just about every culture and tradition is overflown with them.

None of this matters to you. You'll continue to use the same excuse because it helps you justify your rejection of the Scriptures.

No. I just don't let me preconceived beliefs get in the way of my understanding of the facts of reality.

What you just said here, is essentially that you merely believe that genesis is older then gilgamesh. You have zero evidence of this. In fact, ALL the facts of history, archeology, you name it, points to the opposite: that that epic predates genesis by more then 1000 years.