Noah's Ark

[AV1611VET]

I would be very interested in hearing your alternative narrative of human migration that allows for a near-extinction event around 3000 BCE. One that accounts for all known civilizations.

As I pointed out in an earlier challenge thread, a bottleneck catastrophe can lead to one of two conclusions: 1) a bottleneck extinction, and 2) a bottleneck recovery.

A bottleneck recovery depends on the vitality of the survivors.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons [with vitality], and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

 

[Cearbhall]

As I pointed out in an earlier challenge thread, a bottleneck catastrophe can lead to one of two conclusions: 1) a bottleneck extinction, and 2) a bottleneck recovery.

A bottleneck recovery depends on the vitality of the survivors.

I asked about human migration. Please explain how the known history of human civilizations could possibly mesh with the idea of a bottleneck of 10 people or so in one location 5,000 years ago. It's not enough to say "Bottlenecks can happen!"

Not only is there nothing to suggest that it happened, but it's quite literally impossible given what we know.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I would be very interested in hearing your alternative narrative of human migration that allows for a near-extinction event around 3000 BCE. One that accounts for all known civilizations.

Sure. See Genesis 10.

 

[AV1611VET]

I asked about human migration. Please explain how the known history of human civilizations could possibly mesh with a bottleneck of 10 people or so in one location 5,000 years ago.

I thought I just did.

And if '10 or so' people bother you, this should really bother you ...

There were only 2 at one time: Adam & Eve.

And I can even one-best that ...

There was only 1 at one time: Adam.

 

[Cearbhall]

Sure. See Genesis 10.

Genesis does not demonstrate awareness of all civilizations. It does not account for all of human migration. You'll have to add to it if you want to create a theory.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Did you just find a way to take the article seriously?

I didn't get past the "According to the clay tablets". Do I look up those tablets or do you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here's the Hebrew word used or both mountains and hills. It's the translators choice. I choose "hills".

KJV Translation Count — Total: 546x
The KJV translates Strong's H2022 in the following manner: mountain (261x), mount (224x), hill (59x), promotion (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. hill, mountain, hill country, mount

But if you choose "hills" it makes the story fail. And of course genetics tells us that there never was the population bottleneck that the Flood would have created. Why is reality so hard to accept?

 

[AV1611VET]

Genesis does not demonstrate awareness of all civilizations.

Genesis 10 is referred to as the Table of Nations.

 

[Cearbhall]

I didn't get past the "According to the clay tablets". Do I look up those tablets or do you?

There are no tablets. It's a joke.

I thought I just did.

You did not.

And if '10 or so' people bother you, this should really bother you ...

There were only 2 at one time: Adam & Eve.

Are you really under the impression that I've never heard the story before? It's a wonderful piece of literature, but once again, not historical. Not compatible with reality.

"Bother" is not the right word. I enjoy and value the stories. It's the people who take them as fact who bother me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I pointed out in an earlier challenge thread, a bottleneck catastrophe can lead to one of two conclusions: 1) a bottleneck extinction, and 2) a bottleneck recovery.

A bottleneck recovery depends on the vitality of the survivors.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons [with vitality], and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

You do not seem to understand the problem that a bottleneck provides.

 

[VirOptimus]

You do not seem to understand the problem that a bottleneck provides.

He doesnt understand, or even bother trying to understand, the problems with his interpretations. Everything can afterall be explained by invoking magic. Its irrational.

 

[Cearbhall]

He doesnt understand, or even bother trying to understand, the problems with his interpretations. Everything can afterall be explained by invoking magic. Its irrational.

I'm just amazed that when it comes to this topic, they suddenly think evolution is so obvious and so efficient that humanity could have acquired all this genetic diversity in five or six millennia.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Genesis does not demonstrate awareness of all civilizations. It does not account for all of human migration. You'll have to add to it if you want to create a theory.

So I must build a clock in order to tell you what time it is?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

He doesnt understand, or even bother trying to understand, the problems with his interpretations. Everything can afterall be explained by invoking magic. Its irrational.

Magic is the only rational explanation for anything, if you follow them back far enough. Godly miracles (the fact of) are not quite 'ho hum' events, but pretty close.

 

[Cearbhall]

So I must build a clock in order to tell you what time it is?

Translation?

Yes, your theory of human migration must reflect reality in order for me to take it seriously. That's not too much to ask.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm just amazed that when it comes to this topic, they suddenly think evolution is so obvious and so efficient that humanity could have acquired all this genetic diversity in five or six millennia.

The wives of Noah and his sons had all sorts of genetic diversity.

 

[VirOptimus]

Magic is the only rational explanation for anything, if you follow them back far enough. Godly miracles (the fact of) are not quite 'ho hum' events, but pretty close.

Magic is not rational.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Translation?

Yes, your theory of human migration must reflect reality in order for me to take it seriously. That's not too much to ask.

Not my theory; the bible account found in Genesis 10. I didn't write it, I just believe it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Magic is not rational.

Neither is "string theory".

If 'magic' is the only choice left, then magic becomes rational.

 

[Cearbhall]

The wives of Noah and his sons had all sorts of genetic diversity.

Great. Shall we start with Y-chromosome haplogroup Q? How do you account for its history and considerable range?