Noah’s “special” problem

[urbanxy]

Try to refrain from fantasy here, this is a science forum!

*PLOP* That is the sound of my ass hitting the floor; because I just laughed it off.

 

[urbanxy]

...Say dad, are you going to publish your amazing theories any time soon? Maybe you could call the book "The Bible According to Dad". I bet it would be a best seller - at least I know I'd buy it.

you can download a PDF of dad's penultimate treatise The Split-Merge, A Journey of Discovery at the website below.

http://www.geocities.com/lovecreates/

 

[michabo]

I quite like the idea of patching a steel ship with pitch to prevent the steel from leaking. Those wacky ancients, huh?

 

[OdwinOddball]

you can download a PDF of dad's penultimate treatise The Split-Merge, A Journey of Discovery at the website below.

http://www.geocities.com/lovecreates/

Wow. Any doubts I had on Dad being a parody are now firmly dispelled. Its either Parody or a severe mental disorder. And frankly it was too amusing to be mental.

 

[dad]

I quite like the idea of patching a steel ship with pitch to prevent the steel from leaking. Those wacky ancients, huh?

Makes you wonder how much of the ship was wood, how much metal. I think there is little doubt much of it was wood.

 

[outlaw]

Oh my. I have dad on my ignore list (I cut back on my drinking, and he seems far less humourous now), so I don't see his posts unless someone quotes them.

I may be mistaken, but is dad suggesting that Noah built a metal boat the size of a destroyer, and then camouflaged it with wood?

Close…And according to dad Noah set up a smelting facility right on the beach to do so. Maybe that is where he picked up a couple of those parasites.

 

[dad]

Illuminatus
I may be mistaken, but is dad suggesting that Noah built a metal boat the size of a destroyer, and then camouflaged it with wood?

I was asking how much metal was actually used. Was it just the support beams, or hull type idea, finished with wood?

 

[outlaw]

You don't know what you are talking about. We do not know what it was. No one does, unless God told them or something. The record of that thing, or process from before the flood is gone.

Well aside from the bible passage which indicates that yes in fact the ark was made of wood it was also sealed with pitch…a wood thing, not a metal thing.

There are a few things that lead to the conclusion that the casting process is as good an idea as any.

Umm….no…there aren’t

It is related to gophers in a way none of the trees are. It also involved wood, and a biblically recorded and documented working with metal.

So there would be no need to call metal something other than what it was

In addition to this, the reason many have picked a certain wood for their guess as to what it was is what kind of wood is plentiful, or even found where they think the ark was built. Again, they have no idea where that really was, or what kind of trees grew there then!

Because trees magically re-grew to full size after the flood.

If there was a big iron deposit nearby, they would have been able to slap an ark together quickly, and cheaply, relatively speaking.

Yep…sure …four men would be able to mine several tons of iron ore…smelt it and cast it into sheets to make a boat in their spare time they would have been able to produce a few rivet guns to hold their steel boat together.

So don't tell us what it was a wasn't, you have no idea. We do have the bible, and I work with that known quantity.

Except when it gets in the way of your fantasy world…like when you decide to pretend that wood was really metal.

That is not bible, or science, stack it up with granny, and the speck, and PO past, not with the big boys of science and bible!

Hit a nerve did I?

Doesn’t’ change the fact that saying space aliens provided Noah with a shrinking ray to solve the animal storage problems is just as logical and internally consistent as your fantasy about a metal ark.

That must be your fantasy, I never heard of it. I said metal, not bronze.

You are the one who referenced bronze casting

Ge 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.
See, they worked with metal. Who knows the processes and mixes and whatnot they had, maybe better than our stuff?

And they had words for these metals and castings and metal working too…so there would be no need to call metal “gopher wood” at all

So you doubt the ability of the artificers of the time, which, added with the directions of God you think could not have made a strong metal?
Even in recorded early history we see strong metal, like this one with plastic qualities.

Try actually reading the posts you are disagreeing with sometime…

The issues with metal boats were described in detail

"Studies on Wootz indicate that it was an ultra-high carbon steel with between 1-2% carbon and was believed to have been used to fashion Damascus blades with a watered steel pattern (Srinivasan and Griffiths 1997).

Eight hundred years ago


From the site you provided: “Iron occurs in the native metal state as meteoric iron which was exploited by the North American Indians to make weapons. Since iron has a high melting point of around 1550oC it was commonly produced in the Old World by reducing the ore to metal in the solid state to produce bloomery iron which was then wrought to give low carbon wrought iron (0.1-0.2 % C). The Hittite kingdom of the mid second millennium BC was one of the major early iron producing centers and was thought to have a monopoly of iron production,..”

Steel comes in about three thousand years later.

Experimental reconstructions by Wadsworth and Sherby in the 1980’s have demonstrated that ultra-high carbon steels with about 1.5% C can be used to simulate ‘Damascus’ blades and that these exhibit fascinating superplastic properties. Superplasticity is a remarkable phenomenon which allows a material to change its external shape to a very great extent without changing within. "
http://www.metalrg.iisc.ernet.in/heritage.html

Which would be interesting if Damascus steel was around before the middle ages.

Now, with the pre split world and different carbon levels, etc. who knows? How hot did fire burn, even, for example in that atmosphere pre flood? I think it is presumptuous to assume their abilities at metal making were lacking, or the same as post flood history!

Well if your fairly tail is questioned…just add more fibs to it

It could very well have been the way God told Noah to have the ark constructed, this gopher wood process.
Do you think He would have ordered it to be metal if they were unable to make good stuff? Ridiculous. Try to refrain from fantasy here, this is a science forum!

Lets see…you are the one making it all up and ignoring science …but yet you try to accuse me of not using science…yeah….that works

 

[dad]

Close…And according to dad Noah set up a smelting facility right on the beach to do so. Maybe that is where he picked up a couple of those parasites.

No need for a beach. Soon the world would be underwater, dry land was fine. Right near the smelting operation.
As for parasites, why would man and beast be parasite free then? If there were less, then we simply hyper adapt some bugs into their new position as parasites!

 

[LittleNipper]

Nice dodge.

Let's not cloud the issue by continuing to make this personal.

You claimed the "likelyhood" that Malaria organisms had a "different job to do". Explain that in detail. Thanks.

As a Believer, I understand from the Bible that GOD created everything as GOOD. After the FALL of Adam, sin entered into GOD's ENTIRE creation. This means that things began to decay after the FALL. Man no longer obeyed GOD's will nor even understood it. Every animal that at one time knew its place in the environment now needed to consider survival. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So everything was infected including the environment.

 

[michabo]

Makes you wonder how much of the ship was wood, how much metal. I think there is little doubt much of it was wood.

Didn't you just say that the wood used was a *wink* *wink* code word for steel?

 

[TheBear]

As a Believer, I understand from the Bible that GOD created everything as GOOD. After the FALL of Adam, sin entered into GOD's ENTIRE creation. This means that things began to decay after the FALL. Man no longer obeyed GOD's will nor even understood it. Every animal that at one time knew its place in the environment now needed to consider survival. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So everything was infected including the environment.

I really don't care about all that. If it works for you, great.




In an attempt to overcome one of the many problems which falsifies a global flood, you claimed the "likelyhood" that malaria organisms had a "different job to do" at the time. I would like you to explain this in detail.

 

[Guywiththehead]

As a Believer, I understand from the Bible that GOD created everything as GOOD. After the FALL of Adam, sin entered into GOD's ENTIRE creation. This means that things began to decay after the FALL. Man no longer obeyed GOD's will nor even understood it. Every animal that at one time knew its place in the environment now needed to consider survival. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So everything was infected including the environment.

That's great! Now, where in the Bible does it say this?

Predicted response: The Bible doesn't have to include everything! That means you can add whatever you want! Who cares if the Bible says to not add to it?

 

[dad]

deleted double post

 

[dad]

Didn't you just say that the wood used was a *wink* *wink* code word for steel?

One translation of it says "squared beams"

"There is one verse containing the word gopher . Here it is: (KJV)
Gen 6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
The word gopher is unclear, "no Hebrew expert knows for sure what gopher wood is in modern terminology". (Ref 2). In fact, gopher is barely a Hebrew word at all, looking very much like a foreign word included in the text. Others say it could be work of a careless scribe who meant to write kopher (covering or pitch), but everyone thought he wrote gopher.

The leading suggestions for the meaning of gopher wood are wood identity, spelling mistake, squared beams and lamination. Others have been suggested, such as a type of seasoning process or even the outlandish claim that the ark was made of reeds."
http://www.worldwideflood.com/ark/wood/gopher_wood.htm

The words "gopher" and "ets" (wood) used in Genesis 6:14 are translated in the Septuagint (LXX.) as "squared beams."
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/gopherwood.html

Now, as I said, the main beams of the ark may have been made from this GW process. Or, if some prefer, maybe the whole thing, more or less, except the finishing work. In this case, the 'pitch' within and without may have had another purpose than a stopleak! Like what, you say?
WEll, who am I to hazard a guess, but why not. Insulation. Perhaps insulating it inside and out was a good idea if the ice age was also being ushered in at this time? You know, as the canopy was no longer there, and a polarization of some sort may have happened? (hey, I have heard this one somewhere). With the insulation, and the animal body heat, why, it may have been alright. Especially if God steered them closer to the equator, to avoid the extremes of such a thing?!
OK, what else? How about a rust inhibitor for the metal vessel?!!! A year on water, perhaps salty, does have it's wear and tear and rust, you know!!!! That's just a few quickies.
Hey, why not?

 

[Praxiteles]

I wonder what different function the ebola virus had prior to the fall. Or smallpox.

 

[dad]

I wonder what different function the ebola virus had prior to the fall. Or smallpox.

"But most bacteria are harmless, and without them, life on Earth could not exist. They are essential components of the global ecosystem as decomposers"
.."Viruses are a bit more complicated than bacteria. A VIRUS is only a strand of DNA or RNA covered by a protein shell. Viruses are not considered cells. Some scientists are not even sure if these "life forms" are alive."
"Remember, the virus's DNA or RNA can evolve over time, thereby increasing its chances for survival and adapting to the environment. Like bacteria, they adapt through genetic mutations caused by rapid reproduction. " http://www.beyondbooks.com/lif72/2c.asp


. .My goodness, as nasty as these little devils are, sounds like they enjoy hyper evolution even in the present.
Wouldn't it be nice if they had a spiritual infusion, and turned into little angels, that prevented disease?

 

[f U z ! o N]

I do accept mutation within species. I do not accept mutation as a cause of the various species. In that regard, I have no problem accepting that a variant of a species has become so specialized as to be environmentally specific. That does not mean that a tapeworm is not a tapeworm. The cause of ALL such mutations is a direct result of the FALL of Adam and hinges on satanic influence (Satan is still the Prince of this planet). He will remain such until he is removed from office by GOD.

ROFL! yeah satan makes genetic mutations in his genetic factory. LOL

 

[outlaw]

ROFL! yeah satan makes genetic mutations in his genetic factory. LOL

I wonder if Satan is connected with the aliens with the amazing animal shrinking ray?

 

[OdwinOddball]

I wonder if Satan is connected with the aliens with the amazing animal shrinking ray?

More likely with the strange anal probing obsession these aliens are supposed to have...