No rapture.

[Clare73]

The word "haparzo" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is simply stating that at the end of history, on the last day, we will all be taken up. This includes unbelievers too. It does not say that they are not included. Some go to everlasting life and some to death.

You might want to read 1 Th 4:14-17 again.

At the second coming, Jesus will bring to earth with him those who have "fallen asleep" (died) in him (v. 14).
Those with him are the "caught up" elect of v.17.

 

[Douggg]

1 Thess. 2:1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed...

Michael, it is 2Thessalonians2:1-4, not 1Thessalonians. You made a typo.

What translation are you using ? It appears to be the Berean Standard Bible.

I use the King James Version.

 

[1Tonne]

You might want to read 1 Th 4:14-17 again.

At the second coming, Jesus will bring to earth with him those who have "fallen asleep" (died) in him (v. 14).
Those with him are the "caught up" elect of v.17.

So, who are these people that He brings with Him?

 

[Michael Snow]

Michael, it is 2Thessalonians2:1-4, not 1Thessalonians. You made a typo.

What translation are you using ? It appears to be the Berean Standard Bible.

I use the King James Version.

Thanks for the typo catch Think I copied ESV. Does not matter which version.

 

[Douggg]

Thanks for the typo catch Think I copied ESV. Does not matter which version.

Michael, at biblehub.com they have all of the translations.

This one is from the ESV....

1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,a 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c 4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

This one is from the BBB (Berean Standard Bible)...

1Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed.

 

[Clare73]

So, who are these people that He brings with Him?

Are you unfamiliar with the teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Christ (Lk 10:16)?

Those who have gone out ; i.e., have been caught up (harpazo) in the air, to meet him (1 Th 4:16-17) and accompany him (parousia) to earth are the people he brings with him.

 

[1Tonne]

Those who have gone out, been caught up in the air, to meet him (1 Th 4:16-17) and accompany him (parousia) to earth

So, you are meaning believers that are on the earth? Does this include the dead believers too?

 

[Clare73]

So, you are meaning believers that are on the earth? Does this include the dead believers too?

Yes, according to the teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Christ (Lk 10:16), it occurs at the
1) second coming when
2) all mankind is resurrected and
3 the living as well as the resurrected saints are then caught up (harpazo) in the air to meet the descending Christ and
accompany him back to earth (parousia).

 

[1Tonne]

Yes, according to the teaching (1 Th 4:16-17) of Christ (Lk 10:16), it occurs at the
1) second coming when
2) all mankind is resurrected and
3 the living as well as the resurrected saints are then caught up (harpazo) in the air to meet the descending Christ and
accompany him back to earth (parousia).

Then why did Jesus say that the dead believers would be raised on the last day?
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40

 

[keras]

So, who are these people that He brings with Him?

Revelation 20:4 tells us exactly who Jesus will bring with Him at the Return:-
ONLY the martyrs killed during the 3 1/2 year period of world Satanic control. NO ONE else.

Then why did Jesus say that the dead believers would be raised on the last day?
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40

The Last Day can only be the final Day, when God Judges all who have ever lived and Eternity commences for those found worthy. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Clare73]

Then why did Jesus say that the dead believers would be raised on the last day?
"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:39-40

This is where we started. . .post #41.

Review the thread.

 

[Dan Perez]

You might want to read 1 Th 4:14-17 again.

At the second coming, Jesus will bring to earth with him those who have "fallen asleep" (died) in him (v. 14).
Those with him are the "caught up" elect of v.17.

And I see word CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , meaning that Christ is going to take us up in the CLOUDS for a meeting of the Lord INTO the AIR and so will at all times be with the Lord .

And verse 17 DOES NOT say any thing about unbelievers ! in POST # 50 ?

dan p