No one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me MAY NOT DRAW him

[Peacemaker1]

How is a man to hear apart from a proclaiming/preaching? How is a man to believe in whom He has not heard?

The deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men.

The terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed,hat make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproves in the gate.


Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved, my new thread reveals how the blind see, because of the light shining, and those in darkness go to that light, plus how those that think they are something, are brought to nothing and are cut of.




Isaiah 2918 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

Isaiah 29:24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.


Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[Dan2255]

No need for Greek or Hebrew unless one desires to keep digging and the Spirit leads to do so. No need for anyone to slight another who is or is not so led. It can be beneficial to be taught by a person so led. It can also be beneficial to understand the reasoning of the Text.

What you present is in line with John6. God is drawing men to come to/believe in Jesus - God is teaching and those who hear and learn come to/believe in Jesus. How is a man to hear apart from a proclaiming/preaching? How is a man to believe in whom He has not heard?

I glagree but it’s not by human reasoning that gives you understanding it is the Lord who gives understanding. Human reasoning has caused churches to spit and by their human reasoning they have erred.

 

[Peacemaker1]

I glagree but it’s not by human reasoning that gives you understanding it is the Lord who gives understanding. Human reasoning has caused churches to spit and by their human reasoning they have erred.

understanding is the fear of the Lord, and not the fear of man, that is what Christ gave to all, but most hear each other, instead of hearing only Christ.



Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Psalm 111:10The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Proverbs 9:10The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Isaiah 11:2And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

Isaiah 11:3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

 

[Peacemaker1]

understanding in the Lord, by none other than human reasoning, or, reasoned against, then not and no understanding or reasoning.





Proverbs 2:2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;

Proverbs 3:5Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Proverbs 4:1Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.

Proverbs 8:5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

Proverbs 15:32He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 18:2A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.

Isaiah 32:4The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.

Jeremiah 3:15And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Matthew 13:23But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


Matthew 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Mark 7:14And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:



Mark 8:17And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?

Hebrews 4:7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.


Mark 12:33And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Romans 15:21But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.


Ephesians 4:18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 

[Peacemaker1]

the antichrist deceivers time is nearly up, they cant dispute any more without their own selves trapping and condemning themselves by their own mouth

it is knowing the spirit of error, as they cant help but constantly err against the Spirit of truth, as they have neithertruth nor understanding



Romans 1:31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 John 4:6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jude 1:19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

 

[Dan2255]

understanding is the fear of the Lord, and not the fear of man, that is what Christ gave to all, but most hear each other, instead of hearing only Christ.



Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Psalm 111:10The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Proverbs 9:10The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Isaiah 11:2And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

Isaiah 11:3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

The fear of the lord is many things. It is written the fear of the lord is to hate evil the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. The lost fear God knowing they are hell bound. But those in Christ perfect love casts out all fear of condemnation.

 

[Peacemaker1]

The lost fear God knowing they are hell bound. But those in Christ perfect love casts out all fear of condemnation.

the lost fear man, not God


Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.



the devils believe there is one God, but have no fear of God, having no understanding,having no works, is showing their idea of understanding and their understanding of what the fear of God is for them and their way to believe in that one God.



James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.



dwelling in love is opposite to the conversation of the antichrist, showing love for themselves, and not the perfect love of Christ, which they do not confess and deny, that Christ is who cast out that fear to lay His life down for us, which is living in love, so we can believe to live in the same love, by casting out fear of what man can do to you, by fearing God has power after that to cast into hell, i say unto you fear Him.



Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[Peacemaker1]

the antichrists are all corrected, i corrected all the contentions, but all prefer darkened understand, none repent to acknowledge Christ, after their denying of Him, revelations shows what already is.



Matthew 11:20Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

Revelation 2:21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 9:20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk

Revelation 16:9And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Revelation 16:11And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[Dan2255]

the lost fear man, not God


Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.



the devils believe there is one God, but have no fear of God, having no understanding,having no works, is showing their idea of understanding and their understanding of what the fear of God is for them and their way to believe in that one God.



James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.



dwelling in love is opposite to the conversation of the antichrist, showing love for themselves, and not the perfect love of Christ, which they do not confess and deny, that Christ is who cast out that fear to lay His life down for us, which is living in love, so we can believe to live in the same love, by casting out fear of what man can do to you, by fearing God has power after that to cast into hell, i say unto you fear Him.



Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

If the lost don’t see their lost then there is no fear in them. If is only when they hear the gospel they see their condemnation. They who hear and fear their condemnation will either cause them to turn to Christ. If a man hasn’t seen their condemnation they will never see their need for salvatio.

 

[GDL]

Jesus draws all men to Him, that is fulfilled, my new thread speaks about how t
he preaching was done, by whom, who receives it, who does not.


John 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jesus is God. God the Father in Jesus His Son drew men to Christ when He walked the earth. God/Christ/the Spirit post resurrection and session draws men to Him and in similar manner He did before that eventuates in putting forth teaching about Jesus Christ that can eventuate in Faith in Jesus Christ that God has commanded of men. It's how exactly does this process work that @Dikaioumenoi and I have been discussing and I value not only the Truth at whatever depth I find myself in Christ in Spirit being attracted to, but I also value mental disciplines that @Dikaioumenoi has obviously been trained in that the Lord my use to take me deeper.

So, please, you're not teaching me, or it seems either of us anything. And you're being disrespectful in positing or inferring that we need the Gospel. We're simply discussing other than the basics of The Faith.

 

[GDL]

I glagree but it’s not by human reasoning that gives you understanding it is the Lord who gives understanding. Human reasoning has caused churches to spit and by their human reasoning they have erred.

I was led to see the value in learning to study the Text in its original languages. I got through 3 years of training that at times gave me the strangest of very specific headaches that I just ended up attributing to having my brain rewired. Learning another language was very difficult for me until it wasn't. From what I've seen so far, learning the language that @Dikaioumenoi speaks may be a similar process. But so is the technical language of any specialty.

With that said, I've been hit by many over the years trying to tell me how learning the language of Scripture has no value. Indeed, there are some that come to great understanding in translations into their native language. But I've found them to be rare and many have had some background in being taught by men who work exegetically in the original languages. At this point this is the history of where we are now. I've also run into countless instances where I hear or read something said that could easily have been corrected by someone who knows the actual language of the Text.

Yes, God's Spirit is the ultimate teacher. But to say human reasoning has no place is to have bought into a fallacy. God will use whatever He wills in any of us to take us where He desires us to go and do what He desires us to do. I can guaranty you that whatever you've been taught at this point in the game is based upon a history of men who have learned and translated languages and have reasoned in the Text and fought mental battles of understandings for millennia.

Attributing church splits to men's reasoning is overly simplistic. There is much going on in this battle for THE FAITH of JESUS CHRIST and that battle was being fought when the NC Scriptures were being written. The battle will continue until He puts an end to it.

 

[Peacemaker1]

If the lost don’t see their lost then there is no fear in them. If is only when they hear the gospel they see their condemnation. They who hear and fear their condemnation will either cause them to turn to Christ. If a man hasn’t seen their condemnation they will never see their need for salvatio.

there is no fear of God in those who do not respect, or honour the word of God.

the lost honour one another, they do not seek the honour that comes from God only

the lost fear what man can do to them, and the fear of man brings a snare, the ones who fear God are freed from these snares.



Psalm 40:4Blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Psalm 118:6The Lord is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me.

Proverbs 29:25The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe.

John 540 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Hebrews 13:6So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Jesus is God. God the Father in Jesus His Son drew men to Christ when He walked the earth. God/Christ/the Spirit post resurrection and session draws men to Him and in similar manner He did before that eventuates in putting forth teaching about Jesus Christ that can eventuate in Faith in Jesus Christ that God has commanded of men. It's how exactly does this process work that @Dikaioumenoi and I have been discussing and I value not only the Truth at whatever depth I find myself in Christ in Spirit being attracted to, but I also value mental disciplines that @Dikaioumenoi has obviously been trained in that the Lord my use to take me deeper.

Jesus draws all men to Him in heavenly places, that is why the words Jesus speaks are Spirit and they are life, because Jesus shows if He is lifted up from the earth, THEN He will draw all men unto Him. Discussions are not those words that are Spirit and life for belief, they show something else which has no such value or purpose.

 

[Peacemaker1]

Yes, God's Spirit is the ultimate teacher. But to say human reasoning has no place is to have bought into a fallacy. God will use whatever He wills in any of us to take us where He desires us to go and do what He desires us to do. I can guaranty you that whatever you've been taught at this point in the game is based upon a history of men who have learned and translated languages and have reasoned in the Text and fought mental battles of understandings for millennia.

Here is what matters for faith, mens discussions saves nobody in comparison.



John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[Peacemaker1]

John 6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Ephesians 19 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 2:6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Peacemaker1]

do you guys really think discussions instead of acknowledment/ confession, has val
ue to anyone but to give more and more pleasing to the devil to see the place claiming to be Christian forums, never recognising that debate contention disputings, are not where the Spirit of Christ is, bye bye.


2 Timothy 2:25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

Titus 1:1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Philemon 1:6That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

 

[GDL]

Here is what matters for faith, mens discussions saves nobody in comparison.



John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You must have a vivid imagination to be seeing Jesus walking around the earth doing signs today. Especially signs that were designed specifically for the Jews who should have been able to recognize them from the Tanakh.

Rather, today and for quite some time we read about them from men who wrote about them under inspiration using their own personalities and reasoning and ways of writing.

Honestly, what serves no purpose or value to the discussion here is your input to date. Why do you persist?

bye bye

To you too. Please stick to it. If not, then I'll be ignoring you. It's with respect that I inform you. Maybe another time in another thread.

 

[Peacemaker1]

gdl; You must have a vivid imagination to be seeing Jesus walking around the earth doing signs today. Especially signs that were designed specifically for the Jews who should have been able to recognize them from the Tanakh.




vivid imagination to be seeing jesus/believe jesus/blessed are those who have not seen yet believed, doing these signs today, of being blessed for believing in him.


although jesus came unto his own, they did not receive him, because the sign the disciples remembered was, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. that is the sign to the sheep, who are one fold together, who believe in this same sign for them, the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.

the sheep never hear anyone elses voice, all before jesus were thieves and robbers but the sheep did not, and do not hear them, they hear the voice of the good shepherd, who alone is the way, who alone layed his life down for them, the false ones all fleee as they do not really care for the sheep.



Jesus tells the jews, he told them, and they believed not: the works,signs that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.





John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.



John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.



Matthew 115 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.



John 1018 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.


John 1011 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


John 1014 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.


John 1016 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


John 1025 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[Peacemaker1]

It's with respect that I inform you.

Psalm 40:4
blessed is that man that maketh the Lord his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Job 37:24
Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

 

[Peacemaker1]

does the scripture show how jesus draws us to the father, does the same scripture show why men are not drawn, because they have not believed, in the name of the only begotten son of god, and the jews only disputed, and this thread had those very same disputers, but also the same answers to them, now it is bye bye.