No New Commandment

[HARK!]

You're right to say that kainos means fresh or, as I say, "new-and-improved." The Old Testament's commands are for the nation of Israel,

Indeed they are.

so since the New Testament or covenant is for an international church,

The renewed covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

or national form has been abolished by Jesus.

Yahshua didn't abolish the Torah.

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.


(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

However, the principles or underlying intentions of the Old Testament laws carry over to the new commands that Jesus gave us.

His commands are his Father's commands.

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing this writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

Thus, Jesus' commands are new but not new, if that makes any sense.

That defies the law of noncontradiction

Another very important comment is that the word for "love" is agapao. That is, it is not personal or sexual attraction or friendly love, but it is the kind of self-sacrificial love that Jesus displayed when he willingly accepted extreme suffering and death for the benefit of us completely-unworthy people. We believers must also live sacrificial lives as much as God gives us the ability for others.

I understand that the love of YHWH isn't sexual either.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

I don't understand why so many Christians insist on bring that point up out of nowhere.

 

[HARK!]

Again, in this loop, how to you give back?

With all my heart, all my mind, and all of utterly me.

 

[HARK!]

Yes its a higher calling for the follower of Christ to love his neighbor than what was required by the law.

How so?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What saves you Hark ???

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That doesn't answer my question. Your understanding of what Paul is trying to convey, contradicts Yahshua.

(CLV) MarK 12
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."

Yahshua was quoting the Deuteronomy.
(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

John makes it clear how YHWH wants to be loved.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

This conversation sounds like an elder son of the parable trying to debate with the prodigal son, but that's a strawman - I'm really looking at having the heart of the father in that parable.

Since we aren't called as slaves, but as sons - your understanding is incorrect, since what you consistently describe sounds like a slave covenant to me.

 

[HARK!]

Hark! This is a beautiful interpretation that none of us would have arrived at if not for the Incarnation.

None of us? Not even Moses? Not Abraham, not even Enoch?

How can you be so sure of what interpretation of YHWH's word they came to?

 

[Carl Emerson]

None of us? Not even Moses? Not Abraham, not even Enoch?

How can you be so sure of what interpretation of YHWH's word they came to?

That is what Paul is saying...

Col:1
24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

 

[HARK!]

Yes, well, there's no guarantee that we'll remain in that capacity, that we'll continue to love as He does IOW. Living up to our potential is an ongoing endeavor, impossible without the help of grace.

In my understanding grace isn't an ongoing endeavor; but that's a topic for another thread.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

 

[Carl Emerson]

None of us? Not even Moses? Not Abraham, not even Enoch?

How can you be so sure of what interpretation of YHWH's word they came to?

Likewise here...

Eph 3:8-11

8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,

 

[HARK!]

What saves you Hark ???

Wrong question.

It's "who saves you?"

YesheYahu (Isa) 43:
11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside Me there is no savior

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sadly I am concluding that you have not grasped the Gospel of Grace if you keep pushing the Law...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Wrong question.

It's "who saves you?"

YesheYahu (Isa) 43:
11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside Me there is no savior

Ps 2
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

 

[Mr. M]

Yahshua didn't abolish the Torah.

A New Covenant [not a new law]
Hebrews 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

The Law was perfect, the covenant could not be because.....
Romans 8:3. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh.

Galatians 5:24. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Back to Hebrews 8:
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God,
and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds
I will remember no more.
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming
obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

You cannot fulfill the righteous requirements of the New Covenant by knowing Torah,
you must know the Lord by The Indwelling Spirit, and meet a much higher
standard to fulfill the law.
Same Law, New Covenant.
Spiritual, not carnal.
Christ centered, not Torah centered.

 

[HARK!]

That is what Paul is saying...

Col:1
24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, 26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ. 29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

Sorry Carl. The Mystery that Paul speaks of is not Leviticus 19:18.

 

[fhansen]

In my understanding grace isn't an ongoing endeavor; but that's a topic for another thread.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

Yes, so obviously it's possible for a believer, having "tasted of the heavenly gift", to fall back away. We must strive, persevere; we must remain in Him, living by the Spirit. These things are optional at the end of the day. Grace empowers us; that is life in the Spirit, but we can still resist and reject that life, that grace.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sorry Carl. The Mystery that Paul speaks of is not Leviticus 19:18.

Please show me where I said that - if you can...

Wait I will save you the time finding it - because you wont...

This is sad, kiss the son is a relational command that results in salvation.

We are in big stuk if we miss this central command - Jesus must be known - it is not about Law.

 

[HARK!]

Ps 2
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

...but you didn't ask who is baruk.

 

[HARK!]

A New Covenant [not a new law]

Exactly. I don't understand how so many get these two confused. It must be indoctrination.

 

[HARK!]

We are in big stuk if we miss this central command - Jesus must be known - it is not about Law.

The fact that Yahshua must be known, does not negate our obligations to YHWH's word.

Yahshua is YHWH's word.

 

[Mr. M]

None of us? Not even Moses? Not Abraham, not even Enoch?

How can you be so sure of what interpretation of YHWH's word they came to?

First of all "none of us" refers to all who are participating in the discussion.
If you want Moses views, you can read what he wrote. Abraham is said to have fulfilled the Law 430 years before it was written, while he wrote nothing, his life speaks. I have not read the book of Enoch, but I am sure you could enlighten on how he reached the same conclusions as Paul in comprehending Messiah.