NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think that a lot of preaching on Hell is manipulative - to frighten people to comply with the preacher's particular church or doctrine, rather than getting people truly converted to Christ. Jesus mentioned Hell, but never pushed the point. No one in the Gospels or Acts ever embraced Christ through preaching on Hell. What cut to the hearts of the crowd at Pentecost was that Peter told then that the Person they crucified rose from the dead and that God has made Him Lord! He never said that they needed to accept the gospel or else they would go to Hell.

There is nothing at all in the New Testament that encourages people to come to Christ with the threat of going to Hell if they don't. Jonathan Edwards did not preach on Hell when he preached his sermon "Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God." It was the response of the people where they hung on to the pillars of the church for fear that they would fall into Hell. Edwards' sermon was centred around people needing to embrace Christ as the thrust of his message.

All of the people who believed in Christ came to that belief by the healings and deliverances that they observed. At no stage did anyone express anything that would make anyone think that they believed in Christ because they were threatened with eternity in Hell if they didn't.

It is the same today. Where there are evangelists preaching with the accompaniment of miraculous signs and wonders, thousands of people come to Christ. In churches where hellfire is preached, there are more false conversions because people become religious through fear. Those churches have more religious people in it, than genuine believers in Christ.

Fear is not a fruit of the Spirit. Where preaching is based on fear, that preaching is not motivated or inspired by the Holy Spirit. This is why I believe that hell-fire preaching is preaching a false gospel and can only result in false conversions. And it is one real way for good people to be oppressed and obsessed by a demon spirit of fear which can blight their lives until they can get delivered from it.

It is the same thing when a preacher came to my Charismatic church in the 1970s preaching on end time events. He taught that unless people attained a certain standard of holiness they would miss the rapture and have to go through the tribulation. That was at the same time a horrible film came out showing the terrible things that people went through in the tribulation. What happened was that I had to counsel depressed young people who were seriously oppressed with a spirit of fear as the result of that preaching. That is why I don't believe in the bulk of that teaching because it opens people up to demons of depression and fear. By their fruits we show know them. Preaching on Hell and the threat of missing the rapture if we are not holy enough does not have the fruit of the Spirit attached to it, so I firmly believe that most of that preaching comes from an oppressive spirit that is definitely not of God. I think that some of these hell-fire and threatening "you will miss the rapture" teachers needs to have that lying spirit broken off them through a loud command in the Name and through the blood of Jesus!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Satan knew GOD's plan from the beginning
Satan was supposed to be a covering angel until the fullness of time would come when GOD would send HIS SON

Satan didn't like the plan and he deceived Adam and Eve who were, before this point innocent, children. They did not have the knowledge of evil. They knew nothing but good

It wasn't until they sinned that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness

And felt guilt
They knew they did wring because it was then that they hid themselves

Something they had never done before

But Adam and Eve did know that one thing was wrong. They knew that eating of the fruit that God said not to eat of was not right to do. Am I not correct in thinking this?

 

[Neogaia777]

But Adam and Eve did know that one thing was wrong. They knew that eating of the fruit that God said not to eat of was not right to do. Am I not correct in thinking this?

They may, or may not have, "known" what sin and death actually was... Maybe they had the "book smarts" on it, so to speak, but not the "street smarts", or experiencial side of it, so to speak...

God Bless!

 

[Monna]

The gospel is not about law vs grace. The gospel is about Jesus making provision to be able to save us from sin and the penalty of sin. Jesus did not come on earth to save men from the law, he came to save from sin.

The last couple of pages of this thread have made fascinating reading! Wow! what a diversity of understandings about what the gospel is! I wonder how many readers have noticed that at least 5 (and some would say as many as 7) different gospels (in terms of different messages or means) are mentioned in the New Testament?

Law and grace. Jesus is the fulfilment of the law. The law is the standard by which we are judged - and it is NOT about rules. Jesus showed us what it meant to not only "keep" the law, but to fulfil it. The young man who came to Jesus, having "kept the law" was not accused explicitly of lying by Jesus. But it wasn't sufficient. He had kept the rules faithfully, but there was no love in his behaviour - he had not stolen, but not being a thief is not equivalent to being generous, to caring for the poor, the orphans and widows (the type of social justice the prophet insisted was required). Jesus told that man to sell all he owned and give all the income to the poor - it sounds like this was just too much to expect for the disappointed young man. We know that Jesus is our model and goal - because God's intention is to make us like him - and it was so from the beginning - He is the image of God, and mankind was created in the likeness of God.

Jesus said that in effect there are only two "rules" - love God with every bit of yourself, and love your neighbour as your self. You cannot keep this law, these two rules, in theory. You cannot keep this law by giving it academic acknowlegement. You have to put it into practice. Otherwise you are not keeping them. It is not sufficient to "do no evil." Our greatest sins are (I am slowly coming to be convinced of) are not our sins of commission, but our sins of omission - the good we should have done or been but didn't or weren't.

At the same time we read that "grace and truth" came through/by Jesus. He was the true fulfilment of the law in his life and his obedience even to the point of death. But in being the truth (amongst other things showing was is meant really by fulfiling the law) he also showed God's grace, healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, healing the sick, making whole the lame and maimed. And he offers us participation in his resurrection, giving us forgiveness of sins, reconciliation and the real possibility of becoming all we were meant to be. In this sense there is no conflict between law and grace - he was and remains the enbodiment of both. And one important aspect of this good news is that it is available to ALL, not just the rich, high and mighty.

Some comments above have emphasised what we are saved from - including hell. Others have tended more to emphasise what we are saved to, or for. I used to find great comfort in thinking that I am going to heaven rather than hell when I die. But focusing on heaven as something that comes after death, is not all that different from the religion of the ancient Egyptians. The prayer that Jesus taught his disciples is very much about us being and bringing the kingdom of heaven to earth - in the here and now. If we think only of heaven after biological death, we are not combating the very real aspects of hell that are being perpetuated on earth now. The evil one - Satan - is very clever in diverting us from being the kingdom of heaven now, by letting us sink into the relief and comfort of knowing that we will "die and go to heaven."

What are we saved from? we are saved from the bondage, the shackles, the chains, the slavery of Satan -all of which is shown through our sinfulness. All this is even before we start talking about the consequences of slavery to him. Jesus said "I have come to give you [real, true] life - abundant life." and he wasn't talking about after we die biologically. Get to know the truth (Jesus) and the truth will set you free - free from everything that keeps you from being what you are meant to be according to God's purpose and in relationship with him. So we are saved to live the kind of selfless, compassionate, life Jesus demonstrated, now, BEFORE we "die and go to heaven."

 

[miknik5]

The last couple of pages of this thread have made fascinating reading! Wow! what a diversity of understandings about what the gospel is!

Diversity in understanding THE GOSPEL?
If thats what happened then this thread hasn't served a good purpose now has it?

 

[Solomons Porch]

I believe it has well served it's purpose. You def get to see the diversity in opinion and belief. Either way, the gospel was talked about and shared. Whether we agree or disagree, we discussed it and ( I feel ) it has well served the purpose. I am not speaking for ANYONE but myself.

 

[miknik5]

How many GOSPELS are there?

 

[Solomons Porch]

Much to my surprise they are MANY

 

[miknik5]

Much to my surprise they are MANY

Do you know what THE WORD of GOD says about that?

 

[Solomons Porch]

Yes ma'am I do, I was simply answering your question. That much to my shock at the DIFFERENT belief and opinions expressed here. I am not saying my personal opinion is that it is ok, or that there are many gospels. I am simply saying it shocked me as well and there is one gospel.

 

[miknik5]

And would you like to let those who are wondering know it? Or just add to their confusion

 

[miknik5]

We are do much better just preaching THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL so that those who hear THE GOSPEL as it should be heard (as GOD's WORD and TRUTH) might go to HIM that they might learn of HIM from HIM

 

[Solomons Porch]

And would you like to let those who are wondering know it? Or just add to their confusion

Ma'am if you would like to start at the beginning and READ WHAT THEY SAID AND I SAID, please feel free to do so. By all means if your looking to argue and it seems that you are, wrong chick, wrong day. I asked the question because I wanted to know THEIR answers. And I got those answers. Now if you have a question for somebody, please go ask THEM. I have way much more prosperous things to do, than sit here and tell you what is already printed for I believe 25 pages now. Happy reading, have a very blessed day sweety.....

 

[miknik5]

Do you think it's true that those who receive THE HOLY SPIRIT through faith in THE SON
have a guaranteed inheritance?

 

[miknik5]

Ma'am if you would like to start at the beginning and READ WHAT THEY SAID AND I SAID, please feel free to do so. By all means if your looking to argue and it seems that you are, wrong chick, wrong day. I asked the question because I wanted to know THEIR answers. And I got those answers. Now if you have a question for somebody, please go ask THEM. I have way much more prosperous things to do, than sit here and tell you what is already printed for I believe 25 pages now. Happy reading, have a very blessed day sweety.....

I can't. I'm not interested in fellowshipping here

You are free to open your mouth and preach CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED for THE SALVATION of all those who believe

I too was asking you questions and not arguing

But THE TRUTH is we were supposed to point all to THE DOOR
those who hear HIS VOICE will open it
"Come to me" was a different preaching from
this

 

[miknik5]

If you love ME
MY FATHER will love you

John the Baptist rebuked the hard hearted Pharisees saying who told you to flee from the coming wrath?

Some will believe
Some won't

Some will be pricked to the heart
Some won't

"For judgement I have come"

"In them is the word of Isaiah fulfilled"

 

[miknik5]

If I could post a waving emoji I also would do it


Bye!

 

[Monna]

Diversity in understanding THE GOSPEL?

Yes, miknik5, diversity in understanding the gospel.

I have spent many years doing adult education, especially at international level, where participants come from many languages and cultural backgrounds. The training is done in English.

Those who do a lot of adult eduaction know that every participant comes with a unique cultural and linguistic heritage, as well as educational background and personal experience. They all hear me say the same words, but everyone of them filters my words through their accumulated assumptions and experience, to understand my message in a unique way. In other words, though I say the same exact thing to all 25 in the class, 25 different things are heard and understood. Many of these participants are far more academically and experientially qualified in the subject matter than I am. What do I bring to them in the course, then? My role is provoke (yes provoke) a discussion amongst them, because in that dicussion everyone of them gains a new perspective, a new insight, a fuller understanding of the subject matter, and in many cases the process generates entirely new ideas.

So it is with the gospel. You may insist that there is only one gospel. But I assure you that everyone of us who encounters Jesus and his good news to us experiences it like no one else. That's why it is personal. God knows what aspect of his good news is particularly pertinent to me today. And as long as I live, I know that I will find new wonders in that good news - things I did not know or understand when I first met him. My understanding when I was 15 is very different from it is now, and I wait eagerly to hear what new things I will learn from him tomorrow, next week or next year!

If you genuinely want to have Bible references to some of the (different) gospels mentioned I would be glad to give them to you ... though I would hope that you would actually go to the entire context and examine them thoroughly. You might be surprised.

 

[Monna]

If I could post a waving emoji I also would do it

In the formating bar immediately above the comment box, you will find a little smilie. Click on that t a coloured set of smilies will appear below the comment box. There are several tabs with different types. The waving emoji is in the first one on the left. "Old CF Smilies." Have fun using them!

 

[miknik5]

THE SPIRIT speaks ONE LANGUAGE

what was confused and scattered is being gathered up in CHRIST and all speak the same language

And GOD has given us of HIS SPIRIT that we can discern the difference