NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[ViaCrucis]

Agreed.
Christ is the reason we can be saved from hell.
Christ is the reason we can go to heaven.

Then that's missing the point. It's not about not going to hell and going to heaven. It's about God redeeming and reconciling His creation. The Gospel is not "You can avoid this big scary oven underground and go to a happy sky city instead", it's that though you are indeed a sinner and helpless before death, God has because of His invincible and immeasurable love and kindness through His beloved Son, Jesus Christ, destroyed the power of death and overcome it and has defeated every power that stood between us and God and reconciled us and indeed has redeemed and reconciled the whole world--and it is God's good will and pleasure that we be His and that there be everlasting life with and in Him.

Hell fits in only as as a periphery, as the sobering and tragic reality that there are those who will insist on having their own way and deny even to the last that God is good and wills good for all things. And heaven, if by that we mean the ultimate state of the redeemed, isn't about going to a place at all, it's about the good future world when, at Christ's glorious return God indeed makes good on His promises and all is made new and there is world without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Solomons Porch]

Sometime

The gospel is not about law vs grace. The gospel is about Jesus making provision to be able to save us from sin and the penalty of sin. Jesus did not come on earth to save men from the law, he came to save from sin. Those who do not accept Jesus will be lost and they will have to be destroyed in hell's fire. That is the result of not accepting Jesus, the result of not accepting the gospel.

Who is going to be lost when Jesus comes the second time? Those who obey God's law or those who did not have their sins covered by the Blood of Jesus? From the very beginning the issue has always been about the fall of man into sin and God's plan of redemption to win man back and allow him to return to perfect communion as it was in the garden of Eden. So stop misrepresenting what the issue is.

THANK YOU !!!!

Theology cannot and will not save you. Its so simple and yet man complicates it. Blows my mind !!!
Its like people are looking for a "worthy" reason. There aint none.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The gospel is not about law vs grace. The gospel is about Jesus making provision to be able to save us from sin and the penalty of sin.

False, the Gospel is Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead for you and for me and for the whole world. The Gospel is the good news of what God has accomplished and done. It's not about a provision, it's about God saving a broken and self-destructive world from itself.

Anything else is a false gospel and anathema.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Solomons Porch]

And once again it blows right past the ears. Pages and pages......like i said , it is simple. Good, bad. Happy, sad. Positive, negative.
Thats the way it goes.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And once again it blows right past the ears. Pages and pages......like i said , it is simple. Good, bad. Happy, sad. Positive, negative.
Thats the way it goes.

I believe that when it comes to the integrity of the Gospel it's important that we get things right, otherwise we preach something false and end up doing nothing but giving people a false bill of goods.

The Gospel is what matters. Nothing else truly matters.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Solomons Porch]

Sorry guys had to go put my unicorn in the barn for the night....

Then what in the world did Jesus die for?? What did HE die to save us FROM????

 

[PROPHECYKID]

False, the Gospel is Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead for you and for me and for the whole world. The Gospel is the good news of what God has accomplished and done. It's not about a provision, it's about God saving a broken and self-destructive world from itself.

Anything else is a false gospel and anathema.

-CryptoLutheran

This is an illogical emotional response.

The Gospel is Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead for you and for me and for the whole world. The Gospel is the good news of what God has accomplished and done.

This is totally correct! But how does this contradict anything I just said???????????

Why did Christ die in the first place? It is because sin entered the world and man became fallen.

You said the gospel is not about a provision? Really?

Provision - the action of providing or supplying something for use.

Heb_9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He provided (made provision) for our salvation through his blood which was shed on calvary to save us from sin. That is the gospel. Through his death we can have life. That is the gospel. Being saved from the penalty of sin is also the good news of the gospel because we did not deserve to be spared, that is the essence of grace.

 

[Solomons Porch]

This is an illogical emotional response.

The Gospel is Jesus Christ crucified and risen from the dead for you and for me and for the whole world. The Gospel is the good news of what God has accomplished and done.

This is totally correct! But how does this contradict anything I just said???????????

Why did Christ die in the first place? It is because sin entered the world and man became fallen.

You said the gospel is not about a provision? Really?

Provision - the action of providing or supplying something for use.

Heb_9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

He provided (made provision) for our salvation through his blood which was shed on calvary to save us from sin. That is the gospel. Through his death we can have life. That is the gospel. Being saved from the penalty of sin is also the good news of the gospel because we did not deserve to be spared, that is the essence of grace.

To suggest there was a provision made, means to make a way out. But a way out of what??? ourself?? dont add up
You get locked up in jail and you want out....what do u do?? You pay the fine, the bail ( PROVISION ). uhhhh
The wages of sin is death. Wages means something to be paid, I believe. Im not arguing with you Prophecy Kid, i rekon im just venting, sorry............
It just feel like HIS death meant nothing. When in reality it meant everything.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

To suggest there was a provision made, means to make a way out. But a way out of what??? ourself?? dont add up
You get locked up in jail and you want out....what do u do?? You pay the fine, the bail ( PROVISION ). uhhhh
The wages of sin is death. Wages means something to be paid, I believe. Im not arguing with you Prophecy Kid, i rekon im just venting, sorry............
It just feel like HIS death meant nothing. When in reality it meant everything.

No no, you're totally correct. You appreciate what you are being saved from much more when you know what it is. That is a part of the gospel. God instituted a plan of salvation to save mankind from facing the second death in the lake of fire.There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

 

[Neogaia777]

Did he pay for the penalty or punishment we would have received under the Law...?

I think he did, for those who believe in him and put faith in him and in what he did, are, I think, saved from the penalty or punishment for their sin(s)... So does this mean we should "sin away" or sin all we want...? No, like Paul would say, "God forbid"...

We are not under law, but under grace, right...? And this does not mean that would should, or we can, "sin away" right...? Those who see it that way and are doing that with the gift of grace, are "perverting" (or abusing) the gospel of grace, right...?

God probably knows those who are abusing it, or taking advantage of it, or perverting it, so as to use it for an excuse, or worse "reason" to sin, and he will probably, rip the proverbial grace rug, right out from under those ones, right...?

God knows the difference between those truly abusing it/this, and those who are really not, and yet are still sinning some, correct...? And, the former, will have the grace rug ripped right out from under them, and the later, will still be under, have, and will still be shown, and given the gift of "grace" that Christ supplied and paid for for their sin(s), and will not suffer any penalty unnecessarily or that is not for your greater good and greater benefit in the end...

Just my thoughts...

God Bless!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

God has to rid the world of sin to return the world to a state of purity as it once was in the days of eden when there was perfect communion between God and man.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

This is what was lost because of sin. Those who hold on to sin and do not allow God's blood to atone for their sins will be destroyed as a consequence of God riding the world of sin. When God puts an end to sin, death, pain, the grave.

A preacher described the bible like this. My paraphrase.
Genesis 1 & 2 - Earth created and God dwelling in perfect communion with man.
Genesis 3 - First battle with sin and sin enters the world.
Revelation 20 - Last battle with sin and sin is removed from the the world.
Revelation 21 & 22- Earth recreated and communion with God restored.
Genesis 4 to Revelation 20 - The plan of redemption

 

[Solomons Porch]

No no, you're totally correct. You appreciate what you are being saved from much more when you know what it is. That is a part of the gospel. God instituted a plan of salvation to save mankind from facing the second death in the lake of fire.There is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

Thanks, it just makes me sad

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Did he pay for the penalty or punishment we would have received under the Law...?

I think he did, for those who believe in him and put faith in him and in what he did, are, I think, saved from the penalty or punishment for their sin(s)... So does this mean we should "sin away" or sin all we want...? No, like Paul would say, "God forbid"...

We are not under law, but under grace, right...? And this does not mean that would should, or we can, "sin away" right...? Those who see it that way and are doing that with the gift of grace, are "perverting" (or abusing) the gospel of grace, right...?

God probably knows those who are abusing it, or taking advantage of it, or perverting it, so as to use it for an excuse, or worse "reason" to sin, and he will probably, rip the proverbial grace rug, right out from under those ones, right...?

God knows the difference between those truly abusing it/this, and those who are really not, and yet are still sinning some, correct...? And, the former, will have the grace rug ripped right out from under them, and the later, will still be under, have, and will still be shown, and given the gift of "grace" that Christ supplied and paid for for their sin(s), and will not suffer any penalty unnecessarily or that is not for your greater good and greater benefit in the end...

Just my thoughts...

God Bless!

Its not about the law, it is about sin. Adam was given one command. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge good and evil. Adam sinned. Humanity was lost because Adam sinned.

If Adam never ever ate of that fruit, if he was obedient to that one law, that one command, there would be no need for grace because there would be no sin.

 

[Neogaia777]

Its not about the law, it is about sin. Adam was given one command. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge good and evil. Adam sinned. Humanity was lost because Adam sinned.

If Adam never ever ate of that fruit, if he was obedient to that one law, that one command, there would be no need for grace because there would be no sin.

Yes, I agree, and am not disagreeing with you, but, (no offense), but, what is your point...?

Sin gets it's power through the law, and the law written upon hearts came to be when Adam and Eve sinned that sin...

God Bless!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Yes, I agree, and am not disagreeing with you, but, (no offense), but, what is your point...?

God Bless!

The point is to realize what the real problem is. Sin. The world has a sin problem, not a law problem. God's grace was administered because of sin. Seems like many Christians believe that Jesus died to save us from the law. My point was not so much directed at you in opposition but more as a clarification to what you said.

 

[Neogaia777]

The point is to realize what the real problem is. Sin. The world has a sin problem, not a law problem. God's grace was administered because of sin. Seems like many Christians believe that Jesus died to save us from the law. My point was not so much directed at you in opposition but more as a clarification to what you said.

Doesn't sin get it's power through the law though...?

Isn't it the "letter" of the law that kills or makes sin abound or causes death, but the "Spirit" of it that Christ teaches us, gives life...? (2 Corinthians 3:6)

But...? What is the "spirit" of the law and how it gives life, over the "letter" of it that brings sin and death...?

God Bless!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Doesn't sin get it's power through the law though...?

Yes because of our human nature.

The knowledge of sin (the law) opens the door to temptation and opens the door to sin. But knowing what is right and wrong is not the problem. God always wants us to choose right, but through our own power we can never choose right.

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit it was a law. As far as Adam and Eve knew there was only one thing they could have done which was wrong. The devil taking advantage of this knowledge got them to sin. God addresses this problem by administering Grace and replacing our faulty record by his perfect record so we become qualified for the kingdom not based on our sinful record but based on his perfect record. Then eventually God gets rid of all sin and the tempter. In no case does God decide to get us to stop sinning by making us ignorant of sin and not allowing us to make the choice to choose to do what is right.

God knew Adam and Eve would sin, but he did not want them to serve him like robots, he wanted them to make a choice to do so and he would rather them sin and go through all the drama to save them as opposed to them following him like robots.

Something to think about as well. Would Satan have sinned if there was no law he was in violation of?

 

[miknik5]

Its not about the law, it is about sin. Adam was given one command. Do not eat of the tree of knowledge good and evil. Adam sinned. Humanity was lost because Adam sinned.

If Adam never ever ate of that fruit, if he was obedient to that one law, that one command, there would be no need for grace because there would be no sin.

Grace was present from the very beginning

GOD knew Adam/mankind/we would fall and HE still created us

 

[miknik5]

The point is to realize what the real problem is. Sin. The world has a sin problem, not a law problem. God's grace was administered because of sin. Seems like many Christians believe that Jesus died to save us from the law. My point was not so much directed at you in opposition but more as a clarification to what you said.

JESUS died for us because there was no other way by which we could be restored back to THE FATHER except by and through THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
The WAY was blocked and we were sent from GOD's presence covered over in a false and second covering until the RIGHT COVERING for our sins and disobedience might come

 

[miknik5]

Yes because of our human nature.

The knowledge of sin (the law) opens the door to temptation and opens the door to sin. But knowing what is right and wrong is not the problem. God always wants us to choose right, but through our own power we can never choose right.

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the fruit it was a law. As far as Adam and Eve knew there was only one thing they could have done which was wrong. The devil taking advantage of this knowledge got them to sin. God addresses this problem by administering Grace and replacing our faulty record by his perfect record so we become qualified for the kingdom not based on our sinful record but based on his perfect record. Then eventually God gets rid of all sin and the tempter. In no case does God decide to get us to stop sinning by making us ignorant of sin and not allowing us to make the choice to choose to do what is right.

God knew Adam and Eve would sin, but he did not want them to serve him like robots, he wanted them to make a choice to do so and he would rather them sin and go through all the drama to save them as opposed to them following him like robots.

Something to think about as well. Would Satan have sinned if there was no law he was in violation of?

Satan knew GOD's plan from the beginning
Satan was supposed to be a covering angel until the fullness of time would come when GOD would send HIS SON

Satan didn't like the plan and he deceived Adam and Eve who were, before this point innocent, children. They did not have the knowledge of evil. They knew nothing but good

It wasn't until they sinned that their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness

And felt guilt
They knew they did wring because it was then that they hid themselves

Something they had never done before