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no evidence for evolution

SLP

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Originally posted by Lanakila
...The former are represented by the symbolic designations of the chemical alphabet described above and the latter by expressors, repressors, and operators within the function of the genome (Gitt, 97). Thus, DNA possesses a chemical language (inferring conceptual intent), which is translated to produce both pragmatic, and apobetic (purposeful/intended) results (Gitt, 111)

 

Gitt?  Nuff said...  Using Gitt as a source - indeed, an authority - on 'information' is most amusing.  In a creationist book, Gitt defines information such that it must come from a 'conscious mind.'  Well, I personally define it otherwise, therefore, Gitt is wrong.

 

See how easy it is to 'win' an argument and 'disprove' something when you make up your own definitions?

 

By the way - Kimura demonstrated mathematically that Natural selection adds addaptive information to genomes in 1961.
 
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SLP

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Originally posted by Lanakila
Did your wife tell you about my science background, because you seem to spend a lot of your message to me trying to explain evolution to me? I am currently a PhD student studying evolution and population genetics, and I did my undergrad work in both Genetics and Latin. I just think you should understand who your audience is. Although, the way these message boards work, I am probably not your only audience.


Is this supposed to intimidate my hubby and I? If so you failed Rufus. I am not intimdated, and neither is hubby. Your arguments back are basically semantics and you haven't proven that this arguement is wrong by your statements. I will respond to each of your questions and complaints at a later time.

 

Rufus was right on in his demolition of 'hubby's rant.  Semantics?  hardly - When one sets up a strawman, it is easy to knock it down.  'Hubby' has convinced himself that he has an absolute 'truth' - but that absolute truth is premised on faulty input.  Garbage in, garbage out.  Doubtless, 'hubby' put some thought into the post, but since the bulk of his information comes from non-specialist creationists, his conclusions are false. 

 

 
 
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SLP

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Originally posted by Lanakila
1. Natural selection manipulates “pre-existing information”.
2. Genetic mutation deletes/rearranges “pre-existing information”.
3. Ergo: the “theory” of biological evolution cannot account for the “pre-existing information.

 

I posted something on this before and you did not respond.

 

Say we start with sequence:

ACTG

A point mutation occurs.

ACTC

Please explain how all that happened was a rearrangement of 'pre-existing information.'

 
 
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SLP

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Originally posted by Lanakila
It may be adding information by your definition, but its not new or novel information. Its only a duplication and insertion. So, you are still stuck with the dilemma. Also, the dilemma of where the information came from in the first place.

 

Scrape scrape (goal posts moving)...

 

Bang, bang (throwing additional criteria into the mix)...

 

Please please please (question begging)....
 
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SLP

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Originally posted by Lanakila
This same argument is going on at this forum board. The creationist there has more time to argue than I. Check it out:

http://www.evcforum.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000003.html

What is interesting is that Chad is only in 8th grade, which is very embarrassing to me that he understands this topic and can explain it better than I. This is an ongoing debate, on the thread above.

 

The name is 'Chase', and he bailed, and, in reality, he didn't seem to understand much.  I think he cut-and-pasted form some other source, and when he ran out of cut and pastes, he split.

 

Happens quite a bit.
 
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Originally posted by SLP
Rufus was right on in his demolition of 'hubby's rant.

Thanx.

BTW, Chase has posted a little bit on the board in the last week, and I've exchanged email with him. He is young, but appears to be rather bright and inquisitive. He is light years ahead of most of the creationist posters on this board because he actually reads scientific papers from places like Nature and Science. I don't think he has yet the biology background to put it into context, but I suspect he will in the up comming years. Let's hope he has a descent biology teacher in high school.
 
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AV1611VET

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1. The fossil evidence doesn't show evolution occurring. Evolutionists claim they can fit the data into some models, but the same data can fit into other non-evolutionary models as well.
There is nothing about the fossil record to prove evolution.

2. Genetics: While the study of genetics is relatively young such that certain ideas should be taken with a grain of salt until they withstand the test of time, one thing we do know. Mutations are rare, and often not beneficial. It appears from genetics that evolution is unlikely.

3. Micro-evolution: This is what evolutionists used to rely on as proof, things like Darwin's finches, but as creationist models predict micro-evolution as well, there is no conclusive evidence for common descent here.

4. similarites of all life forms: This is just as much evidence of a Common Designer as it is for common descent.

5. Abiogenesis: Unlikely if not impossible for this to occur from natural processes. If, as evolutionists insist, natural processes can explain the origin of all species, why can it not explain adequately the origin of the first species under its scenario. This is the Achilles Heel of evolutionary theory, and basically destroys it though the proponents will insist on drawing a line in the process and excluding the development of the first cell from evolution as a semantic means of clinging to a dying myth.

6. Living systems: It is now theorized that whole species did not evolve for the most part, but rather isolated groups. If that is the case, why did so many of the original species go extinct. In other words, why don't see the halfway intermediary species still living? We see perhaps not one example, at least of something larger than a tiny creature, and even this is debatable. Basically, living systems don't appear to have evolved other than in a micro-manner.
:oldthumbsup:
 
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Gene2memE

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necro.jpg
 
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AV1611VET

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From the first complex organism, other organisms evolved.
But I thought individuals didn't evolve -- populations do?

Or is a single cell considered a "population"?
 
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Robert Palase

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But I thought individuals didn't evolve -- populations do?
Or is a single cell considered a "population"?
Individuals change and population evolve, put simply.. you are not the same as either of your parents because you are a combination of them both, any differences you and your partner have will be passed onto your children and they will be even further removed from their grand parents, this goes down the line for hundreds of generations with each beneficial trait for survival gaining more and more prominence with each generation while the other traits die out, hence the term 'survival of the fittest'.
Remembering that this all happened when nature controlled everything and men controlled nothing, they either survived or they died, the ones who survived were able to pass on their genes to the next generation and make the next population even more capable of surviving.. when disease or the environment changed the criteria for survival changed.
 
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AV1611VET

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Individuals change and population evolve, put simply.. you are not the same as either of your parents because you are a combination of them both, any differences you and your partner have will be passed onto your children and they will be even further removed from their grand parents, this goes down the line for hundreds of generations with each beneficial trait for survival gaining more and more prominence with each generation while the other traits die out, hence the term 'survival of the fittest'.
Remembering that this all happened when nature controlled everything and men controlled nothing, they either survived or they died, the ones who survived were able to pass on their genes to the next generation and make the next population even more capable of surviving.. when disease or the environment changed the criteria for survival changed.
Sounds like microevolution to me.
 
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