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I see your smiling Wonder Woman, and counter with aI need to finish some projects so I will be back tomorrow. I also feel the thread turned from a discussion about not believing people who don't have assurance of salvation aren't saved to just talking about assurance of salvation.
Here is a gif of a smiling Wonder Woman to calm us all. View attachment 251224
I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
I am not inferring anything, James clearly says this in verse 2:18. He asks the man with a "dead faith" to show it without works.
Hebrews 11 is actually a great go to for cross-reference that supports what I have said.
I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
Are you sure?Being a participant of the divine nature.
Except that you need to read Genesis. His faith is based on him doing what God told him to do.
Do you have faith of salvation?I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
Galatians 5:22-24Perhaps, perhaps not. I don't see outlined in scripture a hard and fast rule that says every believer will mature in the faith. I see what believers should and are supposed to do, but I don't see what will happen for every believer. The Corinthians were babes in Christ in the first epistle that Paul wrote to them, carnal and not spiritual. They were having a hard time bearing fruits, yet they were called saints.
I think one can argue that the Holy Spirit influences all believers toward obedience to God and righteous living in accordance to what scripture calls us to do, but the argument is just as valid on the other end that some believers can and will quench the Holy Spirit's work within their lives. They may be saved, but they are the thorny soil that is choked by the cares of the world, and doesn't bring forth fruit to perfection.
We need to REST in the Lord. Questioning salvation is the work of Satan. Walk in the Spirit always. Rest assured you are in the Body of Christ.I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
Yeh, "quality." I understood that the first time around. What I asked then was this--if I commit myself to performing good deeds, which deeds count the most, the least, and in between? Will helping the proverbial old lady across the street count for more towards my salvation than, say, giving a hundred dollars to local homeless shelter? What else?I suggest you read 1st John which is an excellent reference on the believer's assurance. I already cited several verses from that book on how we can have assurance based upon the quality of our lives - see my post #11.
Your understanding appears correct according based on the fullness of scripture. One can find single passages here and there about instant and eternal salvation through belief alone, however you have to proof text them, and disregard the fullness of the gospel in order to latch onto such passages. God is all in all. The grace of salvation is given as he pleases, hence we have the god thief and John 316. But.... we also have the sheep and the goats. We have working out our salvation in fear and trembling. We have faith withou works is dead. And we have go away, I never knew you. So.....It appears God will bestow a perfect gift of grace to some, by reading of their hearts for perfect contrition, and perhaps the person didn’t have a chance to do good works in support and proof of their faith, like the good thief. But most of us get an opportunity To live out our gift of the grace of faith by showing the effect of God’s light in us by picking up our own crosses daily, and following Christ. And by prayer, fasting, alms giving, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and imprisoned and such. And this should come about naturally for the truly saved as a result of grace. In my faith tradition we refer to “blessed hope” in our salvation because of Christ.I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
It’s not a quantitative credit and debit system where this equals such and such and that equals less or more, If we have truly accepted Christ and His grace, then we enter into His very body, We are strengthened by His body and blood which Instill spiritual life within us, God IS love (caritas/agape), and all who live in love live in God. It seems that the greatest gift is charity/love. Jesus says they will know you by your love for one another. So we live in love. We do whatever we do with God’s love, and therefore to the glory of God. So if you’re helping a lady across the street, or putting an extra 5 in the collection for the poor, or even just serving customers at work it should all be out of love and to the glory of God which is a state of the heart given as grace to the members of the body of Christ. No points for certain actions, but rather a change in our state of being which assists us in conforming with God’s will for us which is ultimately a perfection of love so that we may enter eternal life. (salvation). So, it is not THAT you do good works, it is rather that whatever works you do are with love and to the Glory of God as a member of the mystical body of Christ.Yeh, "quality." I understood that the first time around. What I asked then was this--if I commit myself to performing good deeds, which deeds count the most, the least, and in between? Will helping the proverbial old lady across the street count for more towards my salvation than, say, giving a hundred dollars to local homeless shelter? What else?
That would be closer to the POV of the reformed churches, those that teach salvation by Faith. But in the unreformed church bodies, it is salvation by faith (maybe), but also by works. So which works? Which ones count for how much, etc. That is reasonable to ask.It’s not a quantitative credit and debit system where this equals such and such and that equals less or more, If we have truly accepted Christ and His grace, then we enter into His very body, We are strengthened by His body and blood which Instill spiritual life within us, God IS love (caritas/agape), and all who live in love live in God.
I suppose it depends on what you mean by working out your salvation.I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day. What is your opinion?
It appears that you focus on the minutia without see the whole. The two examples you cited exemplify one's character don't they? It is not a matter of one or the other but both as you are have committed the illogical fallacy of proposing a false dilemma. Did you manage to read 1st John? Did you manage to read my short version in post #11? It's not hard to understand.Yeh, "quality." I understood that the first time around. What I asked then was this--if I commit myself to performing good deeds, which deeds count the most, the least, and in between? Will helping the proverbial old lady across the street count for more towards my salvation than, say, giving a hundred dollars to local homeless shelter? What else?
It appears that you focus on the minutia without see the whole. The two examples you cited exemplify one's character don't they?
If I look at Paul who said ," Brethren , I do not count myself to have apprehended but this I do , etc. from Philippians 3:13 , then who am I to say I have apprehended . Like you , through Christ , I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling ...and I find it work with the reward of being fruitful unto God . Elsewhere we are told to endeavor for the faith once delivered to the saints ....this was told to believers . Personally , I am afraid that " assurance of salvation " is possibly being peddled . ( I am not opposed to assurance but not at the cost of truth . ) Grace and peace in the name of Jesus .I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.
What is your opinion?
Not at all. How do you reconcile your belief with the scriptures I cited in 1st John? Do they not describe a lifestyle that a believer should live by? They do not describe quantity do they? Instead they describe attitudes and behaviors that a believer should exemplify. You have not explained away those scriptures and reconciled them with your own view. Rather than faith + works = salvation, I think a more accurate expression is faith = works = salvation.Look, certain churches do teach that salvation is by works. Yes, it sometimes comes with the proviso that this means works PLUS faith, but the performance of good deeds is asserted as being necessary for salvation. In some cases, those churches identify certain good works that are believed to be meritorious.
All the sweeping generalizations about ones character and growing in the image of God, etc. etc. simply serve to sidestep this reality.
I get the whole. We all get the whole. But the question of works in relation to faith is not "minutia."It appears that you focus on the minutia without see the whole.
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