No assurance of Salvation is not equal to No Salvation

[Not David]

What assurance is there when it basically depends entirely on you? Muslims have this dilemma, but for them Allah can reject them even if they lived the best life possible in their eyes...

It's a cooperation between God and man.

 

[Pethesedzao]

I feel a lot of times when I tell someone that I don't have assurance of Salvation, they believe "I don't have a relationship with Jesus", but it is the opposite, I know that I have to work out my salvation every day.

What is your opinion?

God works in us by His Spirit to help us work out our salvation.

 

[Not David]

The only problem with that thinking is that Christ didn’t come and die on the cross for demons: he died for the sins of men. When men believe and trust him, they have remission of sins.

If that's the case then James wouldn't have mentioned.
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. "(James 2:19)

 

[Not David]

God works in us by His Spirit to help us work out our salvation.

I don't deny that.

 

[Jonaitis]

It's a cooperation between God and man.

So then, you have something to boast about.

 

[Jonaitis]

Please, let's not take apart James from his own argument. Heretics do this.

 

[Pethesedzao]

I don't deny that.

All He asks us to do is to believe in His Name and joyfully do His will.

 

[Not David]

So then, you have something to boast about.

Nope, because we still need God's grace to be saved.

 

[Albion]

It is not the quantity but the quality of one's lifestyle.

How do we know that? What I read repeatedly is just that we have to perform works. But if it is quality, are you able to rank the possible good deeds for us according to quality?

 

[Not David]

Please, let's not take apart James from his own argument. Heretics do this.

I am not the one who called James "Epistle of Straw" for not teaching faith alone.

 

[Pethesedzao]

If that's the case then James wouldn't have mentioned.
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. "(James 2:19)

Just 'believing' doesn't prove that anyone is a disciple of Christ Jesus

 

[Jonaitis]

Nope, because we still need God's grace to be saved.

Again, then you have something to boast about. It doesn't matter if God gave you grace to make you "able," if you were the one who used that grace than another you have something to boast about.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Here's how I look at it. What does a doctrine of assurance guarantee the individual who believes in it? Nothing, God decides. What does a doctrine of non-assurance guarantee the individual who believes in it? Nothing, God decides.

Now a doctrine of assurance would make sense, if you could guarantee everyone who believes in it is saved. That doesn't seem possible nor could you actually prove that to be the case. Why not be content with God's judgement unknown as it is? God will do what is right in the end, our personal feelings aside.

 

[Pethesedzao]

How do we know that? What I read repeatedly is just that we have to perform works. But if it is quality, are you able to rank the possible good deeds for us according to quality?

We will be rewarded for what we have done for Jesus.

 

[ilovejcsog]

OSAS

 

[Jonaitis]

I am not the one who called James "Epistle of Straw" for not teaching faith alone.

How about actually reading the whole passage? James clearly states that the discussion is about a faithless person without evident works from faith.

 

[Call me Nic]

James 2:21
"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?"

Abraham was counted righteous before God prior to Isaac's birth. The offering of Isaac was merely a justification of Abraham's faith. Abraham's faith had already previously justified him before God, however. Scripture is clear in this.

Genesis 15:4 "And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

James is indeed speaking of justification, but Romans 4:2-3 is clear that Abraham's works did not justify him before God. So in who's eyes does works justify a man? Before the eyes of other men.

James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." This is a conversation between two men, one with works, one without. Both have faith, but only one can prove their faith by their works.

This is a core biblical truth, in which men judge the outward appearance, and God judges the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Romans 4:2-5 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (This proves that the justification in James of Abraham is not of God, but of men). For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness (in Genesis 15, before Isaac's birth). Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (That is, faith in Christ according to Romans 5:1-2)."

 

[Not David]

Again, then you have something to boast about. It doesn't matter if God gave you grace to make you "able," if you were the one who used that grace than another you have something to boast about.

I can boast even if I don't have a choice because I was one of the chosen ones.

 

[royal priest]

Romans 4:2-3 “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.”

The Christian is a man who says, ‘Yes, alas, it is true; I have been vile and horrible and a desperate sinner, yet I believe I stand righteous in the presence of God in Christ.’ He can face his past, he can look into himself and see the vileness, the pollution, of sin still remaining, and when the devil says, ‘Do you think you have a right to say that you are a Christian?’, he says, ‘Yes, I do. In spite of the fact that all this is true of me, I know I am righteous in Christ.’ He does not look at himself to find justification, he looks entirely out to Christ and all that he is in Christ.
--Martin Lloyd Jones

 

[Jonaitis]

I can boast even if I don't have a choice because I was one of the chosen ones.

Yes, boast in Christ for something outside yourself.