NIV / New Versions / Wescott and Horts text / the demonic of Shephard of Hermes???

[christian73]

This is me personally answering this question. No,I do not believe that God wants anyone using any new version. Not even the NIV or NLT. And thank you for respecting my opinion, Even if you do not agree. I will try do do the same. Even though I do get caught up in the moment. Thanks again.

Let me ask this. If God's Word is for everybody, and since we don't talk that way today, why wouldn't God want His Word translated so people could read and understand it?

 

[Jim1927]

Richard, the majority of the translators were indeed Church of England. There were only a few Puritans and others on the council. I said on another thread, whether here or another forum, I can't remember, the translators often used Anglican terminology, especially when translating ecclesiastical verses.

I must correct something, however, and it has to do with baptism within the Church of England. For example, Queen Elizabeth I was immersed in water, as was the common practice in the early days. In many ANglican churches in England, beneath the floor, near the pulpit, are baptismal tanks. If any person, particular a adult convert, chooses immersion in water, the Bishop is obligated to perform it. That is true to this day, and especially on the mission fields.

Infant baptism is directly connected to circumcision,,,,a covenant promise. I don't agree with it, but at least we can rightly understand the church's theology and rites.

Anglicans are not watered-down Roman priests. In fact, you can get down on your knees and thank God for the tons of sound evangelical books written by godly Anglicans in defence of the gospel and the word of God. Have a visit to All Soul's Anglican Church in London...Dr. Stott is still there as rector emeritus, having served that parish since 1945, the year I entered seminary in London.

I am not a papist, and I grew up in Anglican public schools. As a matter of fact, I was saved within the Anglican walls when I realized the Christ at my confirmation. To this day there is a cross mixture in Anglican Churches; liberals, moderates, conservatives and out right evangelicals...and even what we used to call high church.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

 

[Tony Merritt]

Hey we all do. I got flagged for flaming after I first joined. It's easy to do sometimes. You seem like a good, intelligent person.

Hey christian. Intelligent?? Some and even myself(at times) will disagree with that one. I do try to study when I get the time. As far as good....well?....I try to serve the Lord with the best of my ability. I will take a stand on what I believe. If it means at times going toe to toe....so be it. As long as it is done for Christ. Thanks for the kind remarks.

Tony M

 

[Tony Merritt]

Something I've wondered about those who hold the KJV Only view, do all of you know the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic languages?

Do you, personally, know the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic languages?

If you do not, then how can you be sure that every word of the KJV is translated correctly?

Most of us do not know Greek or Hebrew. And nor do I. But I do personally know some Preachers who do. Preachers who I have heard preach. And I have also talked to them. This was the very reason the KJV was translated to English. So people like me may have the Word of God.

Tony M

 

[Tony Merritt]

Let me ask this. If God's Word is for everybody, and since we don't talk that way today, why wouldn't God want His Word translated so people could read and understand it?

Hey christian. No we do not talk that way anymore. This is where studing comes in. By the way...the KJV is written on a 6th grade level. Hard to understand? Tells you alot about some people doesn't it. The problem is...is that people do understand it,but do not want to line up with what God has to say. God did want his word translated so all can understand. I believe that the KJV is that version. The things in the bible that are not understood maybe because they haven't been revealed. One (must) be saved to understand alot of what is in the bible. This is one reason we have preachers. And as a saved person reads,studies and prays. The Holy Spirit will reveal more to them.

Tony M

 

[Tony Merritt]

Most of 'em don't and can't.

Kiwimac

Hey kiwi. And I am one who can't. So this is what makes the Holy Spirit even more special. He lets me know what is right and wrong. He leads,directs and guides. I may be wrong on things,but the Holy Spirit is never wrong.


Tony M

 

[PETE_]

Hey kiwi. And I am one who can't. So this is what makes the Holy Spirit even more special. He lets me know what is right and wrong. He leads,directs and guides. I may be wrong on things,but the Holy Spirit is never wrong.


Tony M

most in this discussion would say the same yet we disagree.

 

[Tony Merritt]

most in this discussion would say the same yet we disagree.

Hey Pandersen. Then that makes some us wrong doesn't it? This means that one side either doesn't have the Holy Spirit. Or refuses to be led by him. Or chooses to go against what he is saying. It can't be both ways ,can it? Somebody has to be wrong. I guess this is what makes debating so exciting.As long as we agree to disagree. Have a good one.


Tony M

 

[HypoTypoSis]

Hey christian. No we do not talk that way anymore. This is where studing comes in. By the way...the KJV is written on a 6th grade level. Hard to understand? Tells you alot about some people doesn't it. The problem is...is that people do understand it,but do not want to line up with what God has to say. God did want his word translated so all can understand. I believe that the KJV is that version. The things in the bible that are not understood maybe because they haven't been revealed. One (must) be saved to understand alot of what is in the bible. This is one reason we have preachers. And as a saved person reads,studies and prays. The Holy Spirit will reveal more to them.

Tony M

The bible, specifically, the deeper spiritual matters relating to the gospel are not for the world, ie the unsaved, for those matters are for the saved alone as the unsaved are incapable of understanding spiritual things that must be spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[peacechild]

Hey christian. No we do not talk that way anymore. This is where studing comes in. By the way...the KJV is written on a 6th grade level. Hard to understand? Tells you alot about some people doesn't it. The problem is...is that people do understand it,but do not want to line up with what God has to say.

I would genuinely like to know what source that claim is derived from. I've heard that line repeatedly coming from the KJV advocates.
In various places, I've read that the King James version is grade 12+
For example, ehow.com has an article about choosing bibles for 9-12 year-olds. In the tips and warning section of that article it says that

The King James Version (KJV) uses Elizabethan English at the twelvth-grade reading level.

The claim that the KJB 1611 is written on the sixth grade level seems completely absurd to me.
Quick - KJV advocates: what is the definition of the following words?

Agone​

1 Sam. 30:13

Alamoth​

1 Chron. 15:20

Almug​

1 Kings 10:11-12

Ambassage​

Luke 14:32

Ambushment​

1 Chron. 13:13

Amerce​

Deut. 22:19

Anon​

Matt. 13:20; Mark 1:30

Ariel​

Isa. 29:1,2,7

Armhole​

Jer. 38:12

Artificer​

1 Chron. 29:5

Assupim​

1 Chron. 26:15,16

Asswage​

Job 16:5

Astonied​

Ezra 9:4

Attent​

2 Chron. 6:40; 7:15

Aul​

Exo. 21:6

​

(pulled from:
http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/kjv.htm)

 

[christian73]

Hey christian. No we do not talk that way anymore. This is where studing comes in. By the way...the KJV is written on a 6th grade level. Hard to understand? Tells you alot about some people doesn't it. The problem is...is that people do understand it,but do not want to line up with what God has to say. God did want his word translated so all can understand. I believe that the KJV is that version. The things in the bible that are not understood maybe because they haven't been revealed. One (must) be saved to understand alot of what is in the bible. This is one reason we have preachers. And as a saved person reads,studies and prays. The Holy Spirit will reveal more to them.

Tony M

First, no matter what grade level it was written at doesn't change the fact that people still find it hard to understand. Also, people back then talked that way, so they could read it easily.

I grant you one thing. I agree with you when you said the Holy Spirit helps us understand the Bible once we're saved. However, even if an unbeliever reads a modern translation, the same is true.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

the KJV is written on a 6th grade level.

Newspapers or, at the least, the first paragraph are traditionally written on the level of sixth grade students.

The bible, on the other hand, is written on a spiritual level, something the unsaved do not raise to the level of even on kindergarten level much less sixth grade.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[kiwimac]

The Bible is not meant only for the saved friend, it is also meant for the unsaved. I would be careful how you limit the work of the Spirit and would draw your attention to the example of Cornelius who was filled with the spirit while he was unbaptised.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

The Bible is ......[]..... also meant for the unsaved.

Not according to the scriptures.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing,

That's what YOU are for--to tell the world.

Romans 10:17 ... and hearing by the word of God.

and YOU tell the world what the Holy Spirit within you has taught you of the word.

Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard?

Has the world not heard YOU?

Romans 10:18 Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth,

Ahh, yes, the world DOES hear YOU!

Romans 10:18 and their words unto the ends of the world.

Indeed, whether it's on the street corner, at work or even today with the internet YOUR words are HEARD the world over!

It's YOUR job to go out into the world and TELL the world of the saving grace of Jesus--NOT your pastor's!

But the unsaved natural man CANNOT know the spiritual mysteries of the word of God for he CANNOT receive them if he does not accept Jesus and THAT is what YOU are for-to tell him!

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The unsaved view the bible like all the fictional books throughout history--just another volume of literature that has no real significance beyond some questionable moral teachings that conflict with the world's far broader humanist New Age teachings of equality and rationalized relative right.

It takes YOU explaining the truth in simple child-like terms they can understand that they might lay their pride aside long enough to explore the gospel message further thereby allowing them to realize the conviction necessary within their own hearts.

 

[kiwimac]

I disagree entirely.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

• Oh, I'm sure there is much we disagree on.
• The real question is whether we agree on the basic simplistics of salvation and subsequent lifelong sanctification and that that is all that is truly needed.
• If so, all the rest is nothing more than extraneous issues we can have fun tossing around never really settling anything until finally eternity arrives and all is then made known.

1. Liberal theology
2. Christian humanism
3. abortion
4. euthenasia
5. political Christian activism
6. evolutionsim and all forms of Darwinism
7. New Age
8. Catholicism
9. Universalism
10. churches and bible versions with leniant views towards perverse forms of sexuality and other evil and sinful acts God has labeled as abominations
11. secular humanism
12. Paganism
13. one World religion
14. one world government
15. the immortality of the unsaved soul
16. embryonic stem cell research
17. cloning
18. the inerrency of the KJV

These are a good starting list of issues I am opposed to and if you advocate any of these positions then we have a disagreement and it would probably better that we not go there.

But, then, again, there is much within the scriptures that we probably can find that we do agree on.

As far as the KJV is concerned I have always used it and would not consider using any other version. But that does not mean I say it is without error for certainly it is not. It simply is, still, the best we've managed to come up with so far; plus, it has nearly four hundred years of reference material integrally tied to it.

 

[RichardT]

• Oh, I'm sure there is much we disagree on.
• The real question is whether we agree on the basic simplistics of salvation and subsequent lifelong sanctification and that that is all that is truly needed.
• If so, all the rest is nothing more than extraneous issues we can have fun tossing around never really settling anything until finally eternity arrives and all is then made known.

1. Liberal theology
2. Christian humanism
3. abortion
4. euthenasia
5. political Christian activism
6. evolutionsim and all forms of Darwinism
7. New Age
8. Catholicism
9. Universalism
10. churches and bible versions with leniant views towards perverse forms of sexuality and other evil and sinful acts God has labeled as abominations
11. secular humanism
12. Paganism
13. one World religion
14. one world government
15. the immortality of the unsaved soul
16. embryonic stem cell research
17. cloning
18. the inerrency of the KJV

These are a good starting list of issues I am opposed to and if you advocate any of these positions then we have a disagreement and it would probably better that we not go there.

But, then, again, there is much within the scriptures that we probably can find that we do agree on.

As far as the KJV is concerned I have always used it and would not consider using any other version. But that does not mean I say it is without error for certainly it is not. It simply is, still, the best we've managed to come up with so far; plus, it has nearly four hundred years of reference material integrally tied to it.

Are you a "textual argument" KJO?

• "I Like the KJV Best." This division is represented by individuals who simply prefer the KJV over other translations;
• "The Textual Argument." Individuals here believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate;
• "Received Text Only." Here, the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally-preserved. The KJV is believed to be a translation exemplar, but it is also believed that other translations based on these texts have the potential to be equally good;
• "The Inspired KJV Group." Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was supernaturally inspired;
• "The KJV As New Revelation" This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God, and can and should be the standard from which all other translations originate. Adherents to this belief may also believe that the original-language Hebrew and Greek can be corrected by the KJV.

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Onlyism

I myself am a received text onlyist. Though I do believe the King James Version is perfectly preserved and that God could have had his hand on the translators..

 

[christian73]

Are you a "textual argument" KJO?

• "I Like the KJV Best." This division is represented by individuals who simply prefer the KJV over other translations;
• "The Textual Argument." Individuals here believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate;
• "Received Text Only." Here, the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally-preserved. The KJV is believed to be a translation exemplar, but it is also believed that other translations based on these texts have the potential to be equally good;
• "The Inspired KJV Group." Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was supernaturally inspired;
• "The KJV As New Revelation" This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God, and can and should be the standard from which all other translations originate. Adherents to this belief may also believe that the original-language Hebrew and Greek can be corrected by the KJV.

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Onlyism

I myself am a received text onlyist. Though I do believe the King James Version is perfectly preserved and that God could have had his hand on the translators..

The KJV is not perfect. It has errors.

 

[HypoTypoSis]

1. "I Like the KJV Best." This division is represented by individuals who simply prefer the KJV over other translations;
2. "The Textual Argument." Individuals here believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate;
3. "Received Text Only." Here, the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally-preserved. The KJV is believed to be a translation exemplar, but it is also believed that other translations based on these texts have the potential to be equally good;
4. "The Inspired KJV Group." Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was supernaturally inspired;
5. "The KJV As New Revelation" This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God, and can and should be the standard from which all other translations originate. Adherents to this belief may also believe that the original-language Hebrew and Greek can be corrected by the KJV.
6. it has nearly four hundred years of reference material integrally tied to it that other versions do not.
7. AV 1611 as published by the Revisers in their "Parallel Bible" in 1886

#6 & #7

 

[RichardT]

1. "I Like the KJV Best." This division is represented by individuals who simply prefer the KJV over other translations;
2. "The Textual Argument." Individuals here believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate;
3. "Received Text Only." Here, the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally-preserved. The KJV is believed to be a translation exemplar, but it is also believed that other translations based on these texts have the potential to be equally good;
4. "The Inspired KJV Group." Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was supernaturally inspired;
5. "The KJV As New Revelation" This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God, and can and should be the standard from which all other translations originate. Adherents to this belief may also believe that the original-language Hebrew and Greek can be corrected by the KJV.
6. it has nearly four hundred years of reference material integrally tied to it that other versions do not.
7. AV 1611 as published by the Revisers in their "Parallel Bible" in 1886

#6 & #7

-_-a