NFP in Marriage?

[Markie Boy]

A discussion came up, and one person said that using NFP to avoid fertile times is just like using birth control. And it's focus is on pleasure, not reproduction - and that's bad.

I thought NFP was staying open to life, yet being able to be joined to one's spouse.

Any thoughts from the East?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Natural Family Planning. Oh man......I haven't heard those three words in 9 years or so! Ugh.
My wife got post-pardem depression from NFP so badly that it put a massive strain on our marriage and made life a living hell for her. She almost died on our third child, I kid you NOT! She had a reaction to the anasthetic and would not come out of it. When she eventually did, she would not breathe for minutes. I was terrified. NFP never once worked for us and we were SUPER conservative about it. Hated it with a fiery passion! That was all in our former life as Catholics. We called NFP "Vatican Roulette."

 

[MariaJLM]

I never heard of anything in Orthodoxy opposing it. Birth control itself seems to be more of a grey area as some insist non-abortive methods are permitted under select circumstances and only as a temporary measure. Then again, I'm far from an expert on the topic, being celibate.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You don't meet a lot of Orthodox Canadian celibate cat ladies these days you know! .....by the way, I have to ask...Rush fan?

I never heard of anything in Orthodoxy opposing it. Birth control itself seems to be more of a grey area as some insist non-abortive methods are permitted under select circumstances and only as a temporary measure. Then again, I'm far from an expert on the topic, being celibate.

 

[MariaJLM]

You don't meet a lot of Orthodox Canadian celibate cat ladies these days you know! .....by the way, I have to ask...Rush fan?

Eh...somewhat. They have a few songs I listen to.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Gotta love yourself some Rush! Big fan. I saw them in concert, but heck it was back around 94.

Eh...somewhat. They have a few songs I listen to.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I never heard of anything in Orthodoxy opposing it. Birth control itself seems to be more of a grey area as some insist non-abortive methods are permitted under select circumstances and only as a temporary measure. Then again, I'm far from an expert on the topic, being celibate.

Oh I misread you - you said non-abortive.

I know that absolutely any method that is abortive would be a big no-no and it gets talked about on the same level as abortion or euthanasia.

Otherwise there's not a great deal of public conversation in our parish about birth control as I think the general atmosphere is one of not prying into the very personal aspects of other's lives. We don't quiz each other about fasting, and certainly not about sexual matters.

But I do get a strong impression that not being open to having children (absent some rather catastrophic circumstances) is a problem.

 

[ArmyMatt]

abortive is a no-go. non-abortive is something for the couple to talk to their confessor about, because the reasons why the couple are doing it that way.

 

[Markie Boy]

I really believe in not using birth control in general. But taking it to the next level where you can't even watch a calendar I'm not so sure about.

I feel like the RCC has some dark views of things like sex, and end up with some extreme views. Is the only goal of marriage children? We have four, and they are such a joy - but I'm not sure how well we would do with more.

I can't help but wonder if it's because they have an all celibate management team.

At times it's like the focus is more on the sorrowful and suffering than joy of the resurrection, while at the same time having chucked important hard disciplines like fasting that can have one focus on hardship.

 

[buzuxi02]

A discussion came up, and one person said that using NFP to avoid fertile times is just like using birth control. And it's focus is on pleasure, not reproduction - and that's bad.

I thought NFP was staying open to life, yet being able to be joined to one's spouse.

Any thoughts from the East?

You can avoid sex altogether, you can use natural techniques to avoid pregnancy . I'm pretty sure NFP is not a drug.

 

[Markie Boy]

You can avoid sex altogether, you can use natural techniques to avoid pregnancy . I'm pretty sure NFP is not a drug.

Yes - NFP is nothing artificial, just watching a woman's cycle to either conceive or not.

In some Roman teaching I'm coming across they are saying even this is not OK. I wonder if this was the teaching of the early Church - which I think the East follows really well, while the West's constant evolution of things has me pause.

 

[buzuxi02]

Yes - NFP is nothing artificial, just watching a woman's cycle to either conceive or not.

In some Roman teaching I'm coming across they are saying even this is not OK. I wonder if this was the teaching of the early Church - which I think the East follows really well, while the West's constant evolution of things has me pause.

Avoiding sex is alright. Washing is alright as well.

 

[AMM]

would birth control drugs ever be acceptable to be used within an Orthodox marriage if they were being used to treat other medical conditions? I.e., the intent is not to avoid pregnancy, but a doctor has prescribed them to prevent/treat other medical conditions. Could that couple still have marital relations?

 

[ArmyMatt]

would birth control drugs ever be acceptable to be used within an Orthodox marriage if they were being used to treat other medical conditions? I.e., the intent is not to avoid pregnancy, but a doctor has prescribed them to prevent/treat other medical conditions. Could that couple still have marital relations?

if the drugs are abortive then no, if not, that is something for that couple's priest

 

[MariaJLM]

Oh I misread you - you said non-abortive.

I know that absolutely any method that is abortive would be a big no-no and it gets talked about on the same level as abortion or euthanasia.

Otherwise there's not a great deal of public conversation in our parish about birth control as I think the general atmosphere is one of not prying into the very personal aspects of other's lives. We don't quiz each other about fasting, and certainly not about sexual matters.

But I do get a strong impression that not being open to having children (absent some rather catastrophic circumstances) is a problem.

That is definitely a factor too. I doubt many people would openly discuss those things and that's the way it should be. It would be weird to go to church and be expected to openly discuss your sex life. I also think it would be more reasonable to go to a married priest about any of those issues as well. I know of somebody who has both a married priest and a priest-monk at her parish. She was having some difficulties in that area and mistakenly approached the priest-monk about it. The entire situation apparently turned ugly very fast because he simply didn't understand what he was talking about.

On a semi-related note, the fact that a married couple must be open to having children is precisely one of the reasons I know marriage would never work for me. I suppose it's a good thing I have discovered that about myself before jumping into that sort of thing.

 

[truefiction1]

The Apostle Paul offers good instruction on how married couples ought to deal with their intimate relations. His teaching is not a promotion of NFP, though Roman Catholic leaders like to construe it as such. He also does not say that these intimate relations are for reproductive purposes only, but actually refers to it as a rendering of "the affection due" to one's spouse, so that the act is not for the sake of the offspring, but for the sake of the spouse. Paul does not suggest that intimate relations should be "put off" until the right time on a calendar. Paul says to "make sure and come together". Abstinence is to be practiced "only with mutual consent" for periods of prayer and fasting, and is therefor entirely in the control of the husband and wife. Paul says noting about any priest or anybody else having any authority in this domain which is between husband and wife.

Having children is important and not to be avoided, yet each family's circumstances vary, so it is highly recommended for couples who aren't sure what they should do in their own situation to talk about things with their spiritual father.

The use of abortive contraceptives is murder.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I recall reading St. Augustine years back, where he says having sex with your wife intentionally during infertile periods was scandalous and sinfully diabolical. When I presented the passage to a Catholic message board, the thread was shut down!!! Why? Because it shows that NFP is nothing but another type of birth control....

Yes - NFP is nothing artificial, just watching a woman's cycle to either conceive or not.

In some Roman teaching I'm coming across they are saying even this is not OK. I wonder if this was the teaching of the early Church - which I think the East follows really well, while the West's constant evolution of things has me pause.

 

[Markie Boy]

So help me - are you saying NFP is just more birth control, and we should not use it?

If so, how does one not end up with way more children than they can raise? At that point is abstinence the only option?

 

[gzt]

We're not really opposed to birth control per se.

 

[jckstraw72]

The Church is opposed to birth control as its standard. Relaxation of that standard can come into play through counsel with one's spiritual father, as Fr. Josiah Trenham teaches, for example.