Newly declassified US intel claims Russia is laundering propaganda through unwitting Westerners

[essentialsaltes]

It didn't take Sherlock Holmes to come to this conclusion, but.... LINK

US intelligence agencies believe that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) is attempting to influence public policy and public opinion in the West by directing Russian civilians to build relationships with influential US and Western individuals and then disseminate narratives that support Kremlin objectives, obscuring the FSB’s role through layers of ostensibly independent actors.

“These influence operations are designed to be deliberately small scale, the overall goal being US [and] Western persons presenting these ideas, seemingly organic,” a US official authorized to discuss the material told CNN.

The campaigns have sometimes been effective at planting Russian narratives in the Western press, according to the intelligence. Maxim Grigoriev, who heads a Russian NGO, made multiple speeches to the UN presenting a false study that claimed the humanitarian group the White Helmets – which operates in Syria – was running a black market for human organs and had faked chemical attacks by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, with whom Russia is allied. Those claims eventually found their way into a television report on the far-right OANN in the United States, according to open-source materials provided by the official.

But the official stressed that the Western voices that eventually became mouthpieces for Russian propaganda were almost certainly unaware of the role they were playing.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have seen this young woman on Youtube. Her name is Misha Petrov. She looks and sounds Russian, although she has very good English. She's got some kind of affiliation with PragerU, and does alot of social media posts on Youtube and Tiktok. She spouts alot of hard right talking points meant to be clickbaity and inflammatory, that aligns with the sort of anti-western, christian nationalist propaganda Putin spews (liberalism bad, rigid ideas about gender good, LGBT are wierd, etc. Curiously she seems to have no religious perspective, which seems common among Christian nationalists of this sort). She spends alot of time ranting about "wokeness", etc. without serious intellectual engagement with the topics. I am honestly wondering if she's some kind of Russian asset (it wouldn't be the first time, remember Maria Butina?) I tried researching her on Google, but I can't find anything about her, except a few details I already mentioned.

 

[Paulos23]

This is not surprising to me. It has been their SOP since 2015.

 

[FireDragon76]

This is not surprising to me. It has been their SOP since 2015.

Petrov seems to fit the picture. Turning up the dial on the culture war is what they have done in the past.


Take this video. It's subtle and soft-pedalled compared to some of her other videos (some of which are awful enough I won't post them just because they are so inane and pointless), but she's basically pushing the same type of propaganda you'ld see in Russia once you read between the lines, just soft pedalled for a younger audience, perhaps. Especially the concern trolling she does alot, that seems to be a common thing among foreign asset influencers and troll farms. I don't know any real American Gen Z kids that talk like this.

Edit: I did a bit more research on her, looking at Reddit, and there are alot of other people that think her activity is suspicious, too. She may be using paid subscribers to boost her place in algorithms, for instance (which might explain how she ended up in my Youtube feed). Another person on reddit talked about Petrov reminding them of Anna Lieven back in 2016, another influencer who had two Russian parents and lived in the US, and most of her activity was highly ideological as well. She was said to have used paid subscribers as well, to boost her ratings.

 

[Merrill]

I have seen this young woman on Youtube. Her name is Misha Petrov. She looks and sounds Russian, although she has very good English. She's got some kind of affiliation with PragerU, and does alot of social media posts on Youtube and Tiktok. She spouts alot of hard right talking points meant to be clickbaity and inflammatory, that aligns with the sort of anti-western, christian nationalist propaganda Putin spews (liberalism bad, rigid ideas about gender good, LGBT are wierd, etc. Curiously she seems to have no religious perspective, which seems common among Christian nationalists of this sort). She spends alot of time ranting about "wokeness", etc. without serious intellectual engagement with the topics. I am honestly wondering if she's some kind of Russian asset (it wouldn't be the first time, remember Maria Butina?) I tried researching her on Google, but I can't find anything about her, except a few details I already mentioned.

I don't think she has any affiliation with Prager U (not that I have seen anyway)

But I have seen some of her videos posted on youtube. Aside from the Russian name, I don't think she is any kind of Russian asset. Why?

Because a Russian asset wouldn't be arguing against things like transgenderism, 3rd wave feminism, etc. They would be arguing FOR those things in order to create division and chaos.

 

[Merrill]

Petrov seems to fit the picture. Turning up the dial on the culture war is what they have done in the past.


Take this video. It's subtle and soft-pedalled compared to some of her other videos (some of which are awful enough I won't post them just because they are so inane and pointless), but she's basically pushing the same type of propaganda you'ld see in Russia once you read between the lines, just soft pedalled for a younger audience, perhaps. Especially the concern trolling she does alot, that seems to be a common thing among foreign asset influencers and troll farms. I don't know any real American Gen Z kids that talk like this.

Edit: I did a bit more research on her, looking at Reddit, and there are alot of other people that think her activity is suspicious, too. She may be using paid subscribers to boost her place in algorithms, for instance (which might explain how she ended up in my Youtube feed). Another person on reddit talked about Petrov reminding them of Anna Lieven back in 2016, another influencer who had two Russian parents and lived in the US, and most of her activity was highly ideological as well. She was said to have used paid subscribers as well, to boost her ratings.

the woman who actually is quite suspicious for a lot of reasons is Nina Byzantina. She has been decidedly pro-Russian, and likes to push certain narratives. She was also married to notorious white nationalist Richard Spencer (who always seemed suspicious to me as well --I don't doubt he is getting paid by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/@ninabyzantina

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't think she has any affiliation with Prager U (not that I have seen anyway)

But I have seen some of her videos posted on youtube. Aside from the Russian name, I don't think she is any kind of Russian asset. Why?

Because a Russian asset wouldn't be arguing against things like transgenderism, 3rd wave feminism, etc. They would be arguing FOR those things in order to create division and chaos.

They have done both in the past (one thing they tried during BLM was to intentionally stoke the flames by engaging in anti-police concern trolling). It depends on what their wider goals and motivations are. Some like Butina made contacts exclusively with the Right.

For some of these people, no doubt, it can be a bit of a chance to get out of Russia for extended vacationing and adventure, with the FSB bankrolling it. Either way, they should be treated with scrutiny.

 

[FireDragon76]

the woman who actually is quite suspicious for a lot of reasons is Nina Byzantina. She has been decidedly pro-Russian, and likes to push certain narratives. She was also married to notorious white nationalist Richard Spencer (who always seemed suspicious to me as well --I don't doubt he is getting paid by the Russians)

https://www.youtube.com/@ninabyzantina

She could just be the female equivalent of some of the Orthobro's I used to hang out with, some of them gravitated towards crazy extreme politics and were Russophiles that fancied Moscow to be really the Third Rome. Russia has an interesting history and it's easy to get lost in it.

Before Russia took a hard turn early under Obama, I used to be a little bit sympathetic to Russia. I took Russian in highschool, too (shortly after the Soviet Union fell, so that was quite a time ago).

 

[Merrill]

They have done both in the past (one thing they tried during BLM was to intentionally stoke the flames by engaging in anti-police concern trolling). It depends on what their wider goals and motivations are. Some like Butina made contacts exclusively with the Right.

For some of these people, no doubt, it can be a bit of a chance to get out of Russia for extended vacationing and adventure. Either way, they should be treated with scrutiny.

I am a lot more concerned by propaganda coming from the CCP.

Tencent owns most of Reddit. Linkedin is crawling with fake Chinese accounts that spread discord and propaganda. Even FB is infected.

Remember the whole "Stop Asian Hate" thing that was going around in 2020-21? It was by a shadowy group out of San Francisco with loose connections to the CCP. On Linkedin, I would see these fake accounts on the news feeds describing attacks on Asians in the US by white supremacists, followed by these please for people to "get involved" to stop it. They would link to phishing sites, sketchy organizations, etc.

There were virtually no attacks on Asians by white supremacists --all the supposed attacks were street crime committed by blacks. The whole narrative was to instill terror in Asians and create paranoia.

And then we have all the COVID-19 false narratives and propaganda connected to the CCP. That was done by fake social media accounts, but was also furthered by researchers with connections to the CCP and PLA, like Eddie Holmes of Australia. He is the guy who put forth the nonsense paper about how a raccoon dog infected people at the Wuhan Wet Market (thus taking suspicion away from the WIV). He based his findings on environmental traces of COVID near a raccoon dog cage, and an old cell-phone photograph of a raccoon dog at the market. This story was run in western media, but there are all kinds of problems with it:

1. Hundreds of live and dead animal samples were taken from the market shortly after it was closed. These included cats, dogs, fish, lizards, hedgehogs, and even raccoon dogs (although this is debated). Not ONE of these animals tested positive for COVID-19. The only virus that was found was in the environment, such as on the ground, the surface of bags, a doorknob, etc.
2. The cages where lizards and fish were found (who cannot contract COVID-19) had more residual virus than the cages where the raccoon dogs were kept. Much more.
3. The first confirmed COVID-19 case in China was not in the Wet Market. It was from a woman from Hubei Province, and another guy who had no connection at all to the market. 13 initial cases had no connection to the market.

So the whole raccoon dog thing was complete nonsense, but it was pushed hard by the media and CCP-connected social media accounts.

 

[durangodawood]

...
Because a Russian asset wouldn't be arguing against things like transgenderism, 3rd wave feminism, etc. They would be arguing FOR those things in order to create division and chaos.

FOR wouldnt fly in the media preferred by the target audience. The target audience are the ones likely to prefer candidates more amenable to Russia's interests

I think Russia wants to develop an affinity with socially conservative people to whom they can sell Putin as a sort of white-knight savior of traditional values against a decadent west. Ultimately they want western disengagement from Ukr and a weaker NATO generally. and the "conservative" vote is their ticket.

 

[FireDragon76]

FOR wouldnt fly in the media preferred by the target audience. The target audience are the ones likely to prefer candidates more amenable to Russia's interests

I think Russia wants to develop an affinity with socially conservative people to whom they can sell Putin as a sort of white-knight savior of traditional values against a decadent west. Ultimately they want western disengagement from Ukr and a weaker NATO generally. and the "conservative" vote is their ticket.

I don't think it's about selling Putin anymore, at least not in the immediate future. It's more about earning the trust of people and getting their attention, inflating the perception of the prominence of ideological divides in the culture, and making the world seem scarier and more confusing in general. Influencers like Lieven or Petrov would be ideal for that, since they have a younger audience in an exploratory stage of life. Russians know the Boomers are about to kick the bucket and won't be a factor anymore, and they can't just wave a silver cross in Gen Z's face, the way Putin did with Bush, and have it mean anything.

Now that I think of it, this is more or less what has been happening among big-ticket Republicans for the last half decade or so. I wonder if there is a connection?

 

[durangodawood]

I don't think it's about selling Putin anymore, at least not in the immediate future. It's more about earning the trust of people and getting their attention, inflating the perception of the prominence of ideological divides in the culture, and making the world seem scarier and more confusing in general. Influencers like Lieven or Petrov would be ideal for that, since they have a younger audience in an exploratory stage of life. Russians know the Boomers are about to kick the bucket and won't be a factor anymore, and they can't just wave a silver cross in Gen Z's face, the way Putin did with Bush, and have it mean anything.

Now that I think of it, this is more or less what has been happening among big-ticket Republicans for the last half decade or so. I wonder if there is a connection?

Yes I agree Putin personally is losing significance. But I do think they are still promoting Russia as a trad values refuge (state murder and general organized crime notwithstanding).

Mainly they want the US to turn inward and consume itself, withdraw from alliances, etc. Their main agitprop vector is US populism. Populist US media isnt amenable to pro trans this and that. Their audience will flee. The are very amenable to anti. So thats part of the push.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yes I agree Putin personally is losing significance. But I do think they are still promoting Russia as a trad values refuge (state murder and general organized crime notwithstanding).

Mainly they want the US to turn inward and consume itself, withdraw from alliances, etc. Their main agitprop vector is US populism. Populist US media isnt amenable to pro trans this and that. Their audience will flee. The are very amenable to anti. So thats part of the push.

If they did do a psyop with LGBT as a subject, it would be more likely involve the kind of stuff where they use the Folsom Street Fair as an example of a Pride parade (even though it isn't), and show it to a conservative-minded audience. Or confuse drag queens with transpeople. That sort of thing.

 

[FireDragon76]

BTW, in the above video I posted... Petrov giving props to Andrew Tate is just cringey. I know of no actual young American women that would say anything good about Andrew Tate. He lured young women into a brothel and forced them to do sex work.

I wonder if they even understand their target audience.

 

[Merrill]

FOR wouldnt fly in the media preferred by the target audience. The target audience are the ones likely to prefer candidates more amenable to Russia's interests

I think Russia wants to develop an affinity with socially conservative people to whom they can sell Putin as a sort of white-knight savior of traditional values against a decadent west. Ultimately they want western disengagement from Ukr and a weaker NATO generally. and the "conservative" vote is their ticket.

There are elements on both the right and left who are tired of neocon adventurism, gerontocracy, and cold-war politics.

RFK Jr. and guys like Ramaswamy, and even DeSantis have spoke out against further escalation, spending, and entanglement in the Ukraine conflict. So it makes some sense for Putin to spread his message in US social media through people like Nina Byzantina or Petrov, but there isn't much RoI. Plenty of Americans think NATO eastward expansion was a bad idea, and they don't trust the corrupt regime of Zelensky

if the goal is to truly disrupt American culture and spread chaos and division, having shills on social media proclaiming the virtues of marriage, childbirth, or even religion, is definitely not the way to do it. A foreign operation would do the opposite: tell young Americans that they should stop having kids, engage in promiscuity and drug use, make them question their gender, reject God, and turn on fellow Americans who have a different skin color. Then Putin and others can point to the "decadent west" and convince his people that he saved them from such degeneracy

 

[Pommer]

There are elements on both the right and left who are tired of neocon adventurism, gerontocracy, and cold-war politics.

RFK Jr. and guys like Ramaswamy, and even DeSantis have spoke out against further escalation, spending, and entanglement in the Ukraine conflict. So it makes some sense for Putin to spread his message in US social media through people like Nina Byzantina or Petrov, but there isn't much RoI. Plenty of Americans think NATO eastward expansion was a bad idea, and they don't trust the corrupt regime of Zelensky

if the goal is to truly disrupt American culture and spread chaos and division, having shills on social media proclaiming the virtues of marriage, childbirth, or even religion, is definitely not the way to do it. A foreign operation would do the opposite: tell young Americans that they should stop having kids, engage in promiscuity and drug use, make them question their gender, reject God, and turn on fellow Americans who have a different skin color. Then Putin and others can point to the "decadent west" and convince his people that he saved them from such degeneracy

The lols, we don’t need Putin to have Americans make mistakes, we can mistake ourselves into whatever dystopia we can, all on our own!

 

[Merrill]

The lols, we don’t need Putin to have Americans make mistakes, we can mistake ourselves into whatever dystopia we can, all on our own!

well that is kind of what I was saying

we are well on the way to degeneracy and social breakdown. We don't need Putin to help, and I am pretty sure he knows this.

 

[FireDragon76]

if the goal is to truly disrupt American culture and spread chaos and division, having shills on social media proclaiming the virtues of marriage, childbirth, or even religion, is definitely not the way to do it.

Why not? This has been in line with Russia's strategy for years, going back to the early 2000's. Have FSB assets make contact with right wing "traditional values" groups to manipulate them.

The goal isn't to turn the US into a Mad Max dystopia in the long term. The goal is to turn the US into a passive non-agent in the world, sympathetic or ammenable to Russian manipulation. A country full of cottage-core neo-traditionalism isn't going to exactly be an economic or military rival for the Kremlin.

A foreign operation would do the opposite: tell young Americans that they should stop having kids, engage in promiscuity and drug use, make them question their gender, reject God, and turn on fellow Americans who have a different skin color. Then Putin and others can point to the "decadent west" and convince his people that he saved them from such degeneracy

The Kremlin doesn't need to do any of that to achieve their domestic goals. It's not about manipulating reality at all for them, but perceptions of reality. Putin's core base, such as it is, has burned out their brain cells on vodka and will believe just about anything, and the rest are kept in line with fear and cynicism.

 

[mindlight]

It didn't take Sherlock Holmes to come to this conclusion, but.... LINK

US intelligence agencies believe that the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) is attempting to influence public policy and public opinion in the West by directing Russian civilians to build relationships with influential US and Western individuals and then disseminate narratives that support Kremlin objectives, obscuring the FSB’s role through layers of ostensibly independent actors.

“These influence operations are designed to be deliberately small scale, the overall goal being US [and] Western persons presenting these ideas, seemingly organic,” a US official authorized to discuss the material told CNN.

The campaigns have sometimes been effective at planting Russian narratives in the Western press, according to the intelligence. Maxim Grigoriev, who heads a Russian NGO, made multiple speeches to the UN presenting a false study that claimed the humanitarian group the White Helmets – which operates in Syria – was running a black market for human organs and had faked chemical attacks by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, with whom Russia is allied. Those claims eventually found their way into a television report on the far-right OANN in the United States, according to open-source materials provided by the official.

But the official stressed that the Western voices that eventually became mouthpieces for Russian propaganda were almost certainly unaware of the role they were playing.

Nothing new here, the KGB was doing similar things describing American support for apartheid, that AIDs was fabricated in a secret American laboratory. The SVR generally has its most profound impact on people who do not care if the myths are real or not for reasons of self-Interest. So for example the German public and political elite loved cheap gas more than the view that they should spend more on defence or take Russian threats to Ukraine seriously. In the case of the American public, poor public school education is probably a more profound reason why convenient conspiracy theories are often believed over the truth. A mugshot of Trump from a criminal prosecution being used in an election campaign to demonstrate his anti-establishment credentials being a perfect example of why some people just do not care about the truth.

 

[mindlight]

I have seen this young woman on Youtube. Her name is Misha Petrov. She looks and sounds Russian, although she has very good English. She's got some kind of affiliation with PragerU, and does alot of social media posts on Youtube and Tiktok. She spouts alot of hard right talking points meant to be clickbaity and inflammatory, that aligns with the sort of anti-western, christian nationalist propaganda Putin spews (liberalism bad, rigid ideas about gender good, LGBT are wierd, etc. Curiously she seems to have no religious perspective, which seems common among Christian nationalists of this sort). She spends alot of time ranting about "wokeness", etc. without serious intellectual engagement with the topics. I am honestly wondering if she's some kind of Russian asset (it wouldn't be the first time, remember Maria Butina?) I tried researching her on Google, but I can't find anything about her, except a few details I already mentioned.

People like her have traction because of our sins. Gender confusion, LGBTQ and moral relativism are not to be affirmed and unhinge a lot of people from the mainstream Western establishment.