New Seats in European Parliament?

[helmut]

(And "Love" I was thinking more of Putin's various war crimes in Ukraine.)

It seems such crimes were the consequences of letting convicted criminals join the troops that attacked the Ukraine. There are rumors (or more evidence?) from Russia of companies consisting 100% of sexual offenders. This fits to reports from Ukrainian survivors in Butcha etc.

 

[Love365]

Could the United Nations vote
for NATO to stay away from Russia’s border?

It might need to be part of a larger agreement.

A peace deal.

 

[SimplyMe]

It might need to be part of a larger agreement.

A peace deal.

So the UN should ban peaceful countries from being able to have treaties with countries that they have a common interest with? What authority does NATO have to limit the diplomacy of a free country and how does the UN enforce it (short of war)?

 

[Hans Blaster]

It might need to be part of a larger agreement.

A peace deal.

NATO has been at Russia/USSR's border since it was founded in 1949. For starters, the US and Russia (ex-USSR) have islands that are only a few km apart in the Bering Straight. Then there is Poland, which definitely is part of NATO and definitely has a border with Russia. None of these have anything to do with Ukraine, nor should they have anything to with Russia's capitulation to Ukraine.

 

[helmut]

It might need to be part of a larger agreement.

A peace deal.

The EU is not at war with Russia, so there is no need of a peace deal.

Do you mean the NATO can help Russia to make peace with the Ukraine? Zelenskyy has made proposals for a peace deal, the NATO demanded a peace treaty should be in accordance to international law. It is up to Russia to move in this direction.

EDIT: Deleted the EU from this text (I forgot the context of lov365's post, and so wrote EU)

 

[helmut]

NATO has been at Russia/USSR's border since it was founded in 1949. For starters, the US and Russia (ex-USSR) have islands that are only a few km apart in the Bering Straight. Then there is Poland, which definitely is part of NATO

Loose wording: Poland was no part of NATO in 1949. But Norway was, has a border to Russia, which was part of the USSR in 1949. Then there is Turkey (NATO member since 1952), with a border to Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia (former parts of USSR …).

Due to the habit of placing the own country in the mid, European world maps place Alaska and Eastern Siberia into the left and right upper corner respectively, so it was not on my mind that they are close together (in theory, I knew it, of course).

 

[Paulos23]

It might need to be part of a larger agreement.

A peace deal.

What would lead to a peace deal is for Russia to leave Ukraine. All this time you have been giving Russia's claims equal weight when there is no cause to. Russia is clearly the agresser here and has resorted to invation when their infuence was fading in Ukraine.

Based on their behavor, there is no reason to give them any good will since they have done nothing to earn it. It is like giving a bully your car while hoping they will not ask for your house, it shows weakness to the bully and it does nothing to stop them. Nothing Russia has done suggests that they will stop even if they get the parts of Ukraine they currently occupy. They will keep trying to get countries that have left them back and they know they will have to break up NATO to do it.

Until you accept these facts, your suggestions are a pipe dream.

 

[Love365]

NATO needs to stop expanding.

At some point, no new members.

 

[Desk trauma]

NATO needs to stop expanding.

Why?

 

[Love365]

Why?

Russia never joined the European Union.
Russia has zero seats in European Parliament.
Russia can’t speak there.

If you believe in free speech,
let Russia speak.

 

[Desk trauma]

Russia never joined the European Union.
Russia has zero seats in European Parliament.
Russia can’t speak there.

If you believe in free speech,
let Russia speak.

None of that is a reason why NATO should not continue to accept new members.

 

[Paulos23]

Russia never joined the European Union.
Russia has zero seats in European Parliament.
Russia can’t speak there.

If you believe in free speech,
let Russia speak.

Russia can speak, but they have to do it as an equal and not dictate conditions, which is their habit.

If they want to be one among many, they can submit to join the EU. They have shown they are not interested in that.

If they want to stop being so agressive, they could join NATO. They have shown they are not inerested in not being agressive.

There is no go reason to allow Russia into the EU so they can have a 'voice'. They have made their position quite clear, they want to contol all of the former soviet states. Those states have made it clear they don't want to join Russia.

To allow them into the EU or NATO is not going to bring peace. It will just be letting the wolf in with the sheep. There is no happy wishisy way out of this, and I understand why you hope so. But Russia has to be reasonable, and right now they are acting like the child that is not getting their way.

You are acting like Russia just wants a seat at the table, but what they clearly want is the whole table. To pretend otherwise is fooling yourself. It is time for Winston Churchill, not Neville Chamberlain.

 

[helmut]

NATO needs to stop expanding.

The NATO is not »expanding«, there are so many countries that live in fear of Russia, and seek help from NATO. These countries expand NATO, so the correct description is „NATO is expanded by new members”.

When Russia stops her aggressive policy, the fear of Russia will vanish, and the expansion of NATO comes to a natural halt.

In fact, NATO has refused to accept some potential members. The most prominent example is Ukraine, who wants to enter NATO almost a decade by now, but was refused to become a candidate for membership.

At some point, no new members.

Russia should stop to control what other countries do by their free will. And as I said: The expansion of NATO is the logical outcome of what Russia did.

 

[helmut]

If they want to stop being so agressive, they could join NATO. They have shown they are not inerested in not being agressive.

No. There has been the suggestion of Russia to become a NATO member, which was refused by NATO. At that time, next to nothing aggression from Russia (and the NATO has been aggressive, too, in Libya and Afghanistan).

To allow them into the EU or NATO is not going to bring peace. It will just be letting the wolf in with the sheep. There is no happy wishisy way out of this, and I understand why you hope so.

I'm not sure whether you understand in the right way. Putin has sent out propagandists into the internet, and love365 sounds like that. May be even be a bot that ejects statements per algorithm, depending what we write. But this is only speculation and probably wrong, so I don't want to press that argument.

It is time for Winston Churchill, not Neville Chamberlain.

thumbsup! (the tumbs-up emoji is not accepted by GF, so I had to edit this post to »make it visible«)

 

[Love365]

Russia never joined the European Union.
Russia has zero seats in European Parliament.
Russia can’t speak there.

If you believe in free speech,
let Russia speak.

People had a boycott of the Golden Globes.
Because they had zero black members.

 

[helmut]

People had a boycott of the Golden Globes.
Because they had zero black members.

Any proof fort that idea? Or at least a hint that makes it plausible?

 

[Desk trauma]

People had a boycott of the Golden Globes.
Because they had zero black members.

Therefore it’s ok to invade Ukraine?

 

[Love365]

Any proof fort that idea? Or at least a hint that makes it plausible?

You can google it.
It was a big news story.

 

[Love365]

Therefore it’s ok to invade Ukraine?

A boycott would have been a better idea.

 

[helmut]

You can google it.
It was a big news story.

Ah, it was not the Russian people you were talking about.