New--SDA General Conference Statement on EGW writings

[tall73]

Here is an example of an Adventist poster on this forum deciding that Ellen White's statement gives clear evidence for his interpretation of the 144,000 and the great multitude.

Ernie Knoll not a prophet?

In the above statement SOP identifies the great multitude as the 144000 by quoting directly from Rev 7:14-17 KJV.

This is the clear proof I had been looking for to link the two groups as one.

 

[Leaf473]

A lot of people I know, do accept that very thing.

Do you accept it? Also, do you believe her writings *were* inspired by God or *are* inspired by God?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think I get what the statements mean. And I think Adventists do too. Which is why we see the statements above from Glacierview where Adventist scholars and administrators ask how Ellen White referred to something when judging whether it is a biblical teaching.

Sorry we will agree to disagree.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Do you accept it? Also, do you believe her writings *were* inspired by God or *are* inspired by God?

So you do not believe Gods' Church has the gift of Prophecy in the last days? That is against the scriptures isn't it and therefore only another cry, be careful everyone the SDA Church claims to have the gift of Prophecy that the bible talks about in *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 which is one of the signs of Gods' last day Church.

 

[Leaf473]

So you do not believe Gods' Church has the gift of Prophecy in the last days? That is against the scriptures isn't it and therefore only another cry, be careful everyone the SDA Church claims to have the gift of Prophecy that the bible talks about in *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 which is one of the signs of Gods' last day Church.

No, I do believe that God's church has the gift of prophecy today.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church. But I don't think anyone there thought about writing down the prophetic messages that were given and then saying that these writings are inspired by God.

Do you believe White's writings are inspired by God?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No, I do believe that God's church has the gift of prophecy today.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church. But I don't think anyone there thought about writing down the prophetic messages that were given and then saying that these writings were inspired by God.

Do you believe White's writings are inspired by God?

I see so your saying that scripture should not be written down by Prophets. Where does it say that in the bible?

 

[Leaf473]

I see so your saying that scripture should not be written down by Prophets. Where does it say that in the bible?

Well... The scriptures were obviously written by Prophets (or apostles).

So yes, prophecy can be written down.

And sure, I can consider the possibility that White was a prophet and that God wanted her to write things down. And that those writings would then be inspired by God.

Is that what you believe?

 

[tall73]

No, I do believe that God's church has the gift of prophecy today.

So you generally hold a cessationist view? You think God gives the Holy Spirit, but not certain gifts? How do you take Peter's sermon at Pentecost? I will give some highlights, but you may want to review it in context.

Act 2:15 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’


Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing


Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

He seems to indicate that the Holy Spirit is for all that God calls, that God indicated it for the last days (starting from the work of Christ as seen here), through Joel.

Which promise is for them and for their children? Is it not the promise of Joel that was then being fulfilled?

 

[HIM]

Once again a mute point. The Apostles Peter wrote scripture (1 Peter, 2 Peter), had visions and dream (Acts of the Apostles 10:1-48) yet scripture shows that at times in His life he made poor decisions in denying Christ (Luke 22:54-62), made Paul decisions with the Jewish believer that Paul says was wrong about (Galatians 2:11-14). Just because someone has a gift of prophecy does not make them infallible and no one has ever claimed that EGW was infallible. Perhaps you believe things about the SDA Church that no one believes.

Happy Sabbath Loves and lives God’s Word.

Not so. They say that all that she wrote was inspired. We Spent over 20 years fellowshipping and still do with Adventist brethren. I know exactly what they believe in as a majority. And this is Through the 10 or so churches I have ministered in and numerous camp meetings attended.

I am not interested in the back in forth in regards to this.
So by all means have the last word.

 

[HIM]

Be careful everyone the SDA Church claims to have the gift of Prophecy that the bible talks about in *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10 which is one of the signs of Gods' last day Church.

They do and so did Ellen White. As a matter of fact Any Christian will have the testimony, Faith of Jesus which is the Spirit of prophesy and keep the commandments of God

 

[HIM]

No, she did not indicate her every word was inspired.

But there are times when common things must be stated, common thoughts must occupy the mind, common letters must be written and information given that has passed from one to another of the workers. Such words, such information, are not given under the special inspiration of the Spirit of God. Questions are asked at times that are not upon religious subjects at all, and these questions must be answered. We converse about houses and lands, trades to be made, and locations for our institutions, their advantages and disadvantages. 1 SM 39.3


However, she made rather broad claims about her writings:

"In these letters which I wrote, in the Testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}


You might say that this communication was only a letter. Yes, it was a letter, but prompted by the Spirit of God, to bring before your minds things that had been shown me. In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me.
{5T 67.2}

Never said she did. The SDA church however has. As far as Ellen goes she said that if we would read our bibles like we should, she would not be needed

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Happy Sabbath Loves and lives God’s Word.

Not so. They say that all that she wrote was inspired. We Spent over 20 years fellowshipping and still do with Adventist brethren. I know exactly what they believe in as a majority. And this is Through the 10 or so churches I have ministered in and numerous camp meetings attended.

I am not interested in the back in forth in regards to this.
So by all means have the last word.

Happy Sabbath HIM!! We might have to agree to disagree here as I do not know of anyone who believes what you are claiming to be honest.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Never said she did. The SDA church however has. As far as Ellen goes she said that if we would read our bibles like we should, she would not be needed

I do not believe this to be true either that I am aware of. Can you provide any evidence for your view that the SDA church has said every word she has ever written is inspired?

 

[Leaf473]

So you generally hold a cessationist view? You think God gives the Holy Spirit, but not certain gifts? How do you take Peter's sermon at Pentecost? I will give some highlights, but you may want to review it in context.

Act 2:15 For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’


Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing


Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

He seems to indicate that the Holy Spirit is for all that God calls, that God indicated it for the last days (starting from the work of Christ as seen here), through Joel.

Which promise is for them and for their children? Is it not the promise of Joel that was then being fulfilled?

I think maybe you got the wrong impression from my post!

I do believe that all Christians today have the Holy Spirit. I believe that all of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12 are available to the church today. Why we don't see more of them in practice, I don't know.

I agree that God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh, and that old men will have dreams and young men will see visions. I'm surprised that more people aren't prophesying today! Or maybe they are, but how God inspires prophecy today looks different from what I'm expecting.

But when it comes to writing things down, that changes from what the Corinthians were doing imo.

If White had simply been someone who had visions of angels and gave prophetic messages during church services, I just say Cool. It's the idea that her writings are inspired by God that makes me wonder how this works in the minds of my SDA brothers and sisters.

And especially the part about how her writings correct human reasoning, but at the same time are to be judged by humans reading the Bible. At least that's what I understand the situation to be.

 

[tall73]

I do not believe this to be true either that I am aware of. Can you provide any evidence for your view that the SDA church has said every word she has ever written is inspired?

He seems to have said that the congregations he was in indicated that.

Perhaps it was a misunderstanding. I quoted her regarding things that were written which were common, and not from inspiration.

But I also quoted where she said the articles, books, and Testimonies were.

As you know, I have a number of disagreements with the Adventist church, but I have not heard it taught that everything Ellen White said was inspired.

But she did say her writings in Adventist papers and her books were inspired

 

[Leaf473]

Never said she did. The SDA church however has. As far as Ellen goes she said that if we would read our bibles like we should, she would not be needed

Does the SDA church say that every word of White's writings were inspired by God?

 

[tall73]

I think maybe you got the wrong impression from my post!

I do believe that all Christians today have the Holy Spirit. I believe that all of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12 are available to the church today. Why we don't see more of them in practice, I don't know.

I agree that God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh, and that old men will have dreams and young men will see visions. I'm surprised that more people aren't prophesying today! Or maybe they are, but how God inspires prophecy today looks different from what I'm expecting.

Ok, yes I did misunderstand, thank you for clarifying.

But when it comes to writing things down, that changes from what the Corinthians were doing imo.

If White had simply been someone who had visions of angels and gave prophetic messages during church services, I just say Cool. It's the idea that her writings are inspired by God that makes me wonder how this works in the minds of my SDA brothers and sisters.

I guess that part I don't understand. If God gives a prophecy, is it not inspired by God? And whether it is spoken or written down, was it not still God inspiring it?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

He seems to have said that the congregations he was in indicated that.

Perhaps it was a misunderstanding. I quoted her regarding things that were written which were common, and not from inspiration.

But I also quoted where she said the articles, books, and Testimonies were.

As you know, I have a number of disagreements with the Adventist church, but I have not heard it taught that everything Ellen White said was inspired.

But she did say her writings in Adventist papers and her books were inspired

Yes thanks Tall that was what I thought he said. I only responded from my perspective and experience that I do not know of anyone that believed what @HIM was saying in regards to the SDA Church in general. That does not mean that there are individuals that have extreme views. These can be found in any Church I think.

 

[Leaf473]

Ok, yes I did misunderstand, thank you for clarifying.



I guess that part I don't understand. If God gives a prophecy, is it not inspired by God? And whether it is spoken or written down, was it not still God inspiring it?

Well, the difference could be that a message which remains only spoken but not written down would be just for those believers gathered at that time and place.

If it's written down, then it starts to take on a more universal aspect. Like Paul wrote a specific letter to Philemon, but we assume there are truths in it for all of us.

I don't have firm views on these things.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I don't know of a "EGW authority" statement.

God is the one who has authority.

.

The GC claim is Ellen has the authority. so you are at odds with with your Church.