New--SDA General Conference Statement on EGW writings

[LoveGodsWord]

I think people wind up talking about Ellen White with Adventists because they keep making official statements about her writings, and informing us of their use. And they say that part of that use is as an inspired guide to Bible passages or correcting inaccurate interpretations.

I don't consider Ellen White inspired. So I don't use her that way. But are you saying no Adventist uses her writings that way? Then why do they keep making these official statements indicating these things?

When I mention her words to Adventists it is to point out Adventist teaching on a particular subject. Because they see her as inspired.

The trouble is that is not true. I normally always talk scripture in my discussions with you and if you read my discussions and also every one of my threads that I have made here in CF they are never about EGW they are always about scripture related to subject matter. It is normally you who seeks to lead all the discussions and the majority of your threads to EGW and away from the scriptures. That said why not put your energies into bible study and discussing the scriptures? I post here to challenge misinformation. I am not telling you what you should believe however, only what I believe. What you choose to believe is between you and God and I do not judge you because according to Jesus it is the words of God we accept or reject that become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48.

 

[tall73]

I think people wind up talking about Ellen White with Adventists because they keep making official statements about her writings, and informing us of their use. And they say that part of that use is as an inspired guide to Bible passages or correcting inaccurate interpretations.

I don't consider Ellen White inspired. So I don't use her that way. But are you saying no Adventist uses her writings that way? Then why do they keep making these official statements indicating these things?

When I mention her words to Adventists it is to point out Adventist teaching on a particular subject. Because they see her as inspired.

The trouble is that is not true.

What is not true?

It is not true that Adventists keep making statements about her writings, and say that her writings as an inspired guide to Bible passages, and saying they correct inaccurate interpretations?

I linked to the official statements. They are there. Adventists voted on them at their GC session. So how is it not true?

I normally always talk scripture in my discussions with you and if you read my discussions and also every one of my threads that I have made here in CF they are never about EGW they are always about scripture.

Yes, you are reluctant to talk about Ellen White here, very much agreed. But that doesn't change the fact that your denomination keeps voting to approve official statements about her writings.

And I have discussed many Scriptures with you as well. But I remind Adventists sometimes what Ellen White says.

So please clarify. Are you an exception among Adventists? Do you not hold Ellen White's writings as Inspired? You seem to as you acknowledge the gift of prophecy.

So then, do you think her writings are an inspired guide on Bible Passages?

Do you think her writings correct inaccurate interpretations of Scripture?

If you don't use her writings that way, we may need to talk to an Adventist who does, who can explain the statements from the denomination.

It is normally you who seeks to lead all the discussions and the majority of your threads to EGW and away from the scriptures.

LGW, we have discussed the Scriptures MANY times.

But I also mention Ellen White with Adventists. I don't bother with others, because they don't consider her inspired.

That said why not put your energies into bible study and discussing the scriptures?

Should you offer this advice to your denomination?

But don't worry, I do put energy into study of the Scriptures.

 

[tall73]

TI post here to challenge misinformation.

What is the misinformation? Did your denomination not pass this official statement?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I think people wind up talking about Ellen White with Adventists because they keep making official statements about her writings, and informing us of their use. And they say that part of that use is as an inspired guide to Bible passages or correcting inaccurate interpretations.

I don't consider Ellen White inspired. So I don't use her that way. But are you saying no Adventist uses her writings that way? Then why do they keep making these official statements indicating these things?

When I mention her words to Adventists it is to point out Adventist teaching on a particular subject. Because they see her as inspired.



What is not true?

It is not true that Adventists keep making statements about her writings, and say that her writings as an inspired guide to Bible passages, and saying they correct inaccurate interpretations?

I linked to the official statements. They are there. Adventists voted on them at their GC session. So how is it not true?



Yes, you are reluctant to talk about Ellen White here, very much agreed. But that doesn't change the fact that your denomination keeps voting to approve official statements about her writings.

And I have discussed many Scriptures with you as well. But I remind Adventists sometimes what Ellen White says.

So please clarify. Are you an exception among Adventists? Do you not hold Ellen White's writings as Inspired? You seem to as you acknowledge the gift of prophecy.

So then, do you think her writings are an inspired guide on Bible Passages?

Do you think her writings correct inaccurate interpretations of Scripture?

If you don't use her writings that way, we may need to talk to an Adventist who does, who can explain the statements from the denomination.




LGW, we have discussed the Scriptures MANY times.

But I also mention Ellen White with Adventists. I don't bother with others, because they don't consider her inspired.



Should you offer this advice to your denomination?

But don't worry, I do put energy into study of the Scriptures.

It makes no difference to me to be honest. I offer the same advice to everyone and that is He (the Word) must increase but I must decrease. Our salvation is only by faith in God's Word alone and this is where I point everyone who has ears to hear and eye to see.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is the misinformation? Did your denomination not pass this official statement?

The misinformation from your threads in regards to the SDA Church and EGW. As posted earlier, so what? Is not prophecy a spiritual gift given to the Church? *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. The gift of the spirit of prophecy is one of the distinguishing signs of Gods' true Church just prior to the second coming *see Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare Revelation 19:10. What is not biblical here according to your threads announcement? - Nothing.

 

[tall73]

Is not prophecy a spiritual gift given to the Church?

Yes, I agreed prophecy is a gift of the Spirit.

And for that reason, and because of the statement your denomination made I asked the following question that for some reason you won't answer.

If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes, I agreed prophecy is a gift of the Spirit.

And for that reason, and because of the statement your denomination made I asked the following question that for some reason you won't answer.

If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?

EGW does not make commentary on every bible passage and has never made any claims to being an inspired bible commentary. That again is misinformation. My faith is in Gods' Word which is where she points everyone who reads her writings. My faith is in God who promises to be my guide and teacher which is God's promise to all those who have ears to hear His voice and eyes to see *John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. This is where we should be pointing everyone don't you think?

 

[tall73]

EGW does not make commentary on every bible passage

Nor did I say she did!

and has never made any claims to being an inspired bible commentary.

Nor did I claim she did!

But your church did just release a statement saying:

Rather than replacing Scripture, they uplift its normative character, safeguard the Church from “every wind of doctrine” (Eph 4:14), and offer an inspired guide to Bible passages

And don't forget your own comment when I presented the draft of the now approved statement in a previous thread. At the time we were not sure they would pass it.

All I see in those statement is that her writing are more like an inspired bible commentary. We are being a little naive if we think the various christian religions of the world do not use bible commentaries are we not?

My faith is in Gods' Word which is where she points everyone who reads her writings. My faith is in God who promises to be my guide and teacher which is God's promise to all those who have ears to hear His voice and eyes to see *John 16:13; John 7:17; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27. This is where we should be pointing everyone don't you think?

I certainly think we should point people to God's word.

But could you answer the question?

If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Nor did I say she did!



Nor did I claim she did!

But your church did just release a statement saying:

Rather than replacing Scripture, they uplift its normative character, safeguard the Church from “every wind of doctrine” (Eph 4:14), and offer an inspired guide to Bible passages

And don't forget your own comment when I presented the draft of the now approved statement in a previous thread. At the time we were not sure they would pass it.








I certainly think we should point people to God's word.

But could you answer the question?

If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?

Your questions implied that EGW was an inspired commentary on every bible passage. I already told you who I get my inspiration from and provided you scriptures from John 7:17; John 16:13; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27 and we can add John 8:31-36; Hebrews 8:11. A prayerful study of Gods' Word claiming God's promises is where I seek to know the truth of God's Word. Sometimes (very rarely) I will also look and see what commentaries say including if anything was written on subject matter in EGW writings but this is not very often because generally she has one message and that is to make our safety the scriptures which is where I spend most of my time relying of God's Spirit to be my guide and teacher and believing and claiming Gods promises. This is what I do. I cannot speak for every individual however as I only speak for myself and my own experience in Gods' Word and just like EGW it is only the scriptures that I point everyone I talk to because it is only in Gods' Word that we can find Jesus and it is only by continuing in His Word that we can know the truth and the truth can makes us free *John 8:31-36

 

[tall73]

Your questions implied that EGW was an inspired commentary on every bible passage.

No it didn't.

And I was quoting the statement of your denomination:

an inspired guide to Bible passages

This is what I do. I cannot speak for every individual however as I only speak for myself and my own experience in Gods' Word and just like EGW it is only the scriptures that I point everyone I talk to because it is only in Gods' Word that we can find Jesus and it is only by continuing in His Word that we can know the truth and the truth can makes us free *John 8:31-36

So why do you think that they keep making these statements?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No it didn't. So why do you think that they keep making these statement?

Well we can agree to disagree. That is how I read your earlier post and questions. Your other question was already answered from the scriptures, in my first post to you in post # 5 linked.

 

[tall73]

Sometimes (very rarely) I will also look and see what commentaries say including if anything was written on subject matter in EGW writings but this is not very often because generally she has one message and that is to make our safety the scriptures which is where I spend most of my time relying of God's Spirit to be my guide and teacher and believing and claiming Gods promises.

And if, in those rare cases, you find that a commentary says something different than what you think the Scriptures are saying after your prayerful consideration, do you change your position to that of the commentary? Do you ever disagree with commentaries?

And if you look in Ellen White's writings and she says something different than what you think the Scriptures are saying, after your prayerful consideration, do you change your position to that of Ellen White? Do you ever disagree with Ellen White?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And if, in those rare cases, you find that a commentary says something different than what you think the Scriptures are saying after your prayerful consideration, do you change your position to that of the commentary? Do you ever disagree with commentaries?

And if you look in Ellen White's writings and she says something different than what you think the Scriptures are saying, after your prayerful consideration, do you change your position to that of Ellen White? Do you ever disagree with Ellen White?

Well here is the thing. In those rare cases I can't recall a single time that the SOP has been in disagreement with anything I have prayerfully studied through the scriptures, relying on and asking God to be my guide and teacher and claiming His promises from John 7:17; John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27 and Hebrews 8:11. Amazing hey? This is why I always point all people to God's Word and the scriptures instead of the teachings and traditions of men then lead many to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. It is through the scriptures alone we find Jesus and where we can know the truth and the truth sets us free.

 

[tall73]

Well here is the thing. In those rare cases I can't recall a single time that the SOP has been in disagreement with anything I have prayerfully studied through the scriptures, relying on and asking God to be my guide and teacher and claiming His promises from John 7:17; John 8:31-36; John 16:13; John 14:26; 1 John 2:27 and Hebrews 8:11. Amazing hey? This is why I always point all people to God's Word and the scriptures instead of the teachings and traditions of men then lead many to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9. It is through the scriptures alone we find Jesus and where we can know the truth and the truth sets us free.

So why do you look at other commentaries "rarely" if you and Ellen White always agree?

And why would the official denomination statement not say to just ask Jesus to reveal, and you don't need Ellen White because she would just agree anyway?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So why do you look at other commentaries "rarely" if you and Ellen White always agree?

And why would the official denomination statement not say to just ask Jesus to reveal, and you don't need Ellen White because she would just agree anyway?

The official statement is not telling anyone not to ask Jesus. It is simply a statement that the writings of EGW are inspired according to the Church's view in support of the scriptures. I like to look at many view points in commentary when I read them (not often). That does not mean I believe and trust every commentary I read. I think what your not picking up here is that we cannot know the truth of Gods' Word unless God's Spirit guides us and teaches us the meanings of His Words. I believe that it takes complete prayerful dependence on God's promises alone, and trust that God will be our guide and teacher. His promises are true and it is faith in Gods' promises and continuing in His Word that God guides us to know the truth of His Words as shown in the scriptures just shared with you. Without Jesus and God's Spirit we cannot know the truth of Gods' Word and we can do nothing at all but through faith in Gods' Word alone we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.

 

[tall73]

The official statement is not telling anyone not to ask Jesus.

Agreed, but the question is why it doesn't say to only ask Jesus and not worry about Ellen White's writings if you will be led as you ask Him and study His word?

You say this is what you do. And whenever you do it you always agree with Ellen White when you check her. So why read tens of thousands of pages instead of more prayerful study of Scripture?

I like to look at many view points in commentary when I read them (not often).

Yes, the question was why you like to do that.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Agreed, but the question is why it doesn't say to only ask Jesus and not worry about Ellen White's writings if you will be led as you ask Him and study His word?

You say this is what you do. And whenever you do it you always agree with Ellen White when you check her. So why read tens of thousands of pages instead of more prayerful study of Scripture?



Yes, the question was why you like to do that.

The statement is simply a statement of belief that EGW's writings are inspired by Gods' Spirit, but it is actually a little more deeper than you are giving it credit for. It is stating that the writings are based on scripture and do not replace scripture, and give inspiration in support of scripture, without exhausting the meaning of scripture or preventing further study of the scriptures. The statement simply ties in with what the scriptures already teach which shows that the Spirit of Prophecy (Revelation 19:10) is a distinguishing sign of God's last day Church before the second coming as found in the scriptures in Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12 compare; Revelation 19:10. Which is in line with *Romans 12:6, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 29; 13:1-3, 8; 14:6, and in Ephesians 4:11. If ever I read other commentaries I like to see what and why other people believe on specific subject matter for a better understanding of what others believe. So it is not wasted time for me.

 

[Freth]

If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?

This has been shown to you before in other threads, but it bears repeating.

SDA 28 Fundamental Beliefs

18. The Gift of Prophecy

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Numbers 12:6; 2 Chronicles 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 2:14-21; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 19:10; Revelation 22:8-9.)
​

This answers your question.

My personal view as an SDA:

If Ellen G. White was given the Spirit of Prophecy, that is, divine inspiration from God Himself, then Ellen White's writings will always be in sync with scripture.

If the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested (by every SDA, as per #18 of our Fundamental Beliefs).

Even if there was some discrepancy found in Ellen G. White's writings, scripture would make it apparent and over-rule said discrepancy.

So the answer to your question...

"If Ellen White is inspired, and an inspired guide to Bible passages, would you not change your view of a Bible passage if she indicates it meant something other than your view?"
​

...is no, as has been shown time and again in other threads.

 

[Leaf473]

What I'm hearing so far on the thread is the difficulty (or impossibility?) of talking about degrees of inspiration.

From the statement:
"We believe that the writings of Ellen G White were inspired by the Holy Spirit..."

I've noticed this situation in other, non-SDA things as well. Saying something is inspired by the Holy Spirit is somehow less jarring than saying it is inspired by God.

From Timothy:
"All scriptures inspired by God..."

Is the Holy Spirit God? If so, is the SDA statement the logical equivalent of:
"White's writings are inspired by God..."?

 

[Freth]

What I'm hearing so far on the thread is the difficulty (or impossibility?) of talking about degrees of inspiration.

From the statement:
"We believe that the writings of Ellen G White were inspired by the Holy Spirit..."

I've noticed this situation in other, non-SDA things as well. Saying something is inspired by the Holy Spirit is somehow less jarring than saying it is inspired by God.

From Timothy:
"All scriptures inspired by God..."

Is the Holy Spirit God? If so, is the SDA statement the logical equivalent of:
"White's writings are inspired by God..."?

You answered your own question.