New Jerusalem will never be on this earth

[m423156]

Not quite, M####.

There has to be a continuity of redemption. When Jesus was resurrected he was seen in his body, yet he could appear at will etc. It was glorified, because there needed to be a continuity between the body that suffered and the one that was raised. He was not a Dali painting figure. The new creation could be very different but in our thinking about it, there has to be something fixed that could not be here. Peter says it is where righteousness dwells. That would be a redeemed form that we can recognize now. Or value and appreciate now.

Whatever it is, death, sorrow and pain are not part of it.

Therefore, if you live on an earth where death, sorrow, and pain are a reality, then you are not on the new earth that New Jerusalem descends upon.

 

[Rev20]

Whatever it is, death, sorrow and pain are not part of it.

Therefore, if you live on an earth where death, sorrow, and pain are a reality, then you are not on the new earth that New Jerusalem descends upon.

Paul told his audience they were already in New Jerusalem at the time he wrote Hebrews. Do you know something that Paul didn't know?

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel." -- Heb 12:22-24​

 

[m423156]

Paul did not tell his audience that they were already in New Jerusalem. He told them that they had come to it and were yet to receive it.

Furthermore, what he told them was that this present heaven and earth were yet to pass away and that we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken.

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven:

whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven.

And this word , Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe: for our God is a consuming fire. -Hebrews 12:25-29

 

[Rev20]

Paul did not tell his audience that they were already in New Jerusalem. He told them that they had come to it and were yet to receive it.

Furthermore, what he told them was that this present heaven and earth were yet to pass away and that we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken.

Two technical questions:

1) Where does he tell them "this present heaven and earth were yet to pass away?"

2) How can those things that cannot be shaken remain, if the heaven and earth pass away?

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven: whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven. And this word , Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Wherefore, receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us have grace, whereby we may offer service well-pleasing to God with reverence and awe: for our God is a consuming fire. -Hebrews 12:25-29

 

[m423156]

Two technical questions:

1) Where does he tell them "this present heaven and earth were yet to pass away?"

2) How can those things that cannot be shaken remain, if the heaven and earth pass away?

1. That he shakes both heaven and earth once more denotes their removal.

2. This heaven and earth must not be among those things that cannot be shaken.

 

[Rev20]

1. That he shakes both heaven and earth once more denotes their removal.

It does no such thing. You are adding words to the scripture. During the judgement of Idumea this happened:

"Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment." -- Isa 34:3-5​

This happened during the judgement of Babylon:

"For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. . . Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger." -- Isa 13:10, 13​

It is figurative language.
.

2. This heaven and earth must not be among those things that cannot be shaken.

That makes no sense.

 

[m423156]

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven: whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. -- Hebrews 12:25-28

 

[Jipsah]

Mercury is too hot to support life.

God could fix that with a single word. And Mercury's shorter orbit and slow rotation means that a single day lasts two full years. That could be important.

The height of the New Jerusalem is the right height for a space elevator on Mars.

Oh, I see. But what about a space grain elevator?

 

[Rev20]

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not when they refused him that warned them on earth, much more shall not we escape who turn away from him that warneth from heaven: whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. -- Hebrews 12:25-28

Are you Paul, today? I thought you had already decided you were going to be Daniel, today?

Wait, that post was yesterday. Weren't you supposed to be Jesus, yesterday?

 

[m423156]

Are you pretending to be, Paul? I thought you had already decided you were going to be Daniel, today?

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. - John 17:21

 

[Rev20]

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. - John 17:21

Are you familiar with "The God Complex?" I hear it is a very scary disorder.

 

[m423156]

Are you familiar with "The God Complex?" I hear it is a very scary disorder.

My dwelling place will be within them; I will be their God, and they will be My people. - Ezekiel 37:27

 

[southcountry]

It is irrelevant if it is literal or metaphorical, for the New Heavens and New Earth that New Jerusalem descends upon have neither literal, nor metaphorical death, sorrow, or pain. And the former heavens and earth, both literal and metaphorical are passed away, both literally and metaphorically.

Furthermore, we are given no indication as to how large New Earth is. It might be bigger than the present sun for all we know. What we do know is that it is not this earth we are presently dwelling in.

I have been reading your posts. You have much good information to share, most of what you write seems correct to me.

If I may elaborate somewhat on this subject, the creation which we currently reside in, which contains all the elements, gravity, time, universes,stars, ect, is described in the bible. It is the sea of glass which sits in front of the throne, AKA , Gods footstool.

One thing to keep in mind is the stars and such are sometimes referred to as "earth", and not just this planet alone. And also in Genesis the "mountains" and "dry land" are the material things that were formed in the "sea", when creation was just beginning. You can use these indicators elsewhere in the bible and you will start to unlock more information about what is happening and going to happen.

It is this same "sea" that is destroyed by fire in Revelation, this is what those verses in 2Peter is about. Yes, satans seat is attached to the material realm, and this is how he is going to be defeated. This is going to be used as a trap for all the evil things.


If you want to get a little deeper, the four rivers in Genesis are actually the forces holding our material plane apart, they are the four angels which the firmament rests upon in Ezekiel.

Where the river issues from the throne and parts in four is where time starts. The sides are indicative of time and the bottom is expansion. Mentally it describes a pyramid with God at the top. This is the capstone which the builders rejected. They await their god to place in the temple, to usurp the true God.

2Thessalonians2: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Acts 4: 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. ( meaning has come down to earth)


The Garden and Eden was not on this material plane. Man was a higher being before the fall. His job was to be caretaker or have the job that the cheribum now hold. This is why the Tree of Life is still there along that river which flows from the throne.

The New Jerusalem will not be made of the same construct. Meaning, there will not be atoms and carbon life forms and things. No more starts and planets.

It will be more complex, because there are more foundations, more variables. It will be awesome.

 

[ebedmelech]

Ebed,
the description and terminology chosen in 2 Pet 3 is pretty geological. Or do you think that the passage is about another dimension simply because 'stoicheia' is there, as does Rev20? The thing is Peter is perfectly capable of supplying such context and references as he did in I P 1 about the futile way of life in Judaism. Or as Paul in Gal 3-4.

Let's read it as normally as possible unless clear guided otherwise.

You cannot Inter. It's really easy to see that too!

Why is Peter saying this at 2 Peter 3:13:
13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

As you read 2 Peter 3, it should be obvious this is NOT geological...it is apocalyptic Inter.

I think you've confused 2 Peter 2 with 2 Peter 3.