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New Earth Creationists Evolving

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by LittleLambofJesus, May 27, 2006.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Yikes. Sorry. I just decided to start a thread on New Earth Creationists since most are either Old Earth or Young Earth.

    So it would help to find out what the Old Heaven and Earth is symbolizing in the OT to find out what the New Heaven and Earth are symboling in the NT. :wave:
     
  2. Virgil the Roman

    Virgil the Roman Young Fogey & Monarchist-Distributist . . .

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    could someone please edify as to what, ID YEC and Oec stand for and mean, not to be rude but i was wondering this thread, and don't know anything about the terminology. any help for be appreciated! thanx!! the Lord jesus christ be with you all!!
     
  3. chaoschristian

    chaoschristian Well-Known Member

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    :wave: and welcome to CF!

    ID=Intelligent Design: all life is the result of an Intelligent Designer as evidenced by irreducibly complex biological mechanisms

    YEC=Young Earth Creationism: God did it. The Earth and the universe are no more than 10000 years old. Special creation for all life, especially man.

    OEC=Old Earth Creationism: God did it. The Earth and the universe are billions of years old. Special creation for all life, including man.

    another that you will see:

    TE=Theistic Evolution: God did it. The Earth and the universe are billions of years old. Evolution theory is supported by the evidence and is the means by which God created the diversity of life. Some TEs hold for special creation for man, some do not.

    That's the nickel tour. Hang around to learn more.
     
  4. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    You almost got it, but along with complexity is also the theory of the fine tuned universe.

    Why do people always leave out GAP? As a minority we should get special consideration.
     
  5. rjw

    rjw Regular Member

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    Gidday JohnR7,

    What do you mean when you write that "[t]he scientific evidence for YEC is just as solid as the evidence for OEC"?

    And

    Are you arguing that both YEC and OEC are correct in the scientific sense. That is, on one point, for example the age of the earth, the evidence is just as strong that the earth really was created 6,000 years ago as the evidence is that the earth was created 4,600,000,000 years ago?


    Regards, Roland
     
  6. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    LLofJ, any chance you could address my question from yesterday? How exactly do the verses you cited and the age of the Earth have anything to do with each other?

     
  7. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

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    LLof J

    I am a Christian, who believes the inspired historical account of Genesis correctly and accurately defines what occurred 'in the beginning".

    In the OP, the discussion seems to be centred on future events. That is important, and what you are saying is almost humorous, but not really relevant to this forum.

    On this forum, the focus is to compare the explanations of origins given by Christians and atheists, and assess the strengths and weaknesses of the explanations put forward by both.

    If you have time to waste :p , why not stay around and have a look at some of the discussions. You should be aware of the presuppositions made on both sides. For the YEC, it is assumed that God exists and that His revelation regarding Creation given in Scriptrue is readable, relevant, and reliable.

    For the atheist, and it would seem some of the theistic evolutionists, the main presupposition is that the origin of the universe must be explained in terms of naturalistic processes without reference to God or the supernatural.
     
  8. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

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    Too bad Evolution is also accepted by Christians and other faiths.
     
  9. Micaiah

    Micaiah Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be confusing an explanation of origins and evolution. (Always enjoy it when I can point this out.)
     
  10. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    The scientific evidence helps us to understand the Bible. The question is WHAT happened 6,000 years ago? What does the Bible say happened 6,000 years ago? There is a overwelming scientific evidence for the historical accuracy of the Bible . There is no reason to question that Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses, Abraham, David & Solomon, were actual historical people that lived when and where the Bible says they did. Science can help us to better understand how God works with man.

    One example of science evidence and the Bible is the recent research on DNA. The DNA research tends to support the truth and accuracy of the Bible. No one argues against the evidence. They the evidence proves that there are things in the Bible that are true but they say it does not prove that there is a God.

    Feel free to ask your questions so I know where you are wanting to go with this.
     
  11. Edx

    Edx Senior Veteran

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    Creationism isnt just a Christian thing either though is it? And Evolution isnt an atheist explanation, its a scientific explanation. Is Gravity also a atheist explanation?
     
  12. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Well.... no.

    What the Bible says happened 6000 years ago, and what science says happened 6000 years ago does NOT go conform.

    There is some reason to question whether Solomon and David were as historical as described in the Bible.

    There is even more reason the question whether Abraham existed at all, not to speak about his story.

    There is a lot of reason to question the existence of Noah, Adam and Eve.
     
  13. chaoschristian

    chaoschristian Well-Known Member

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    Tricky, tricky, tricky you. So clever.

    The purpose of this forum is discuss the scientific merits of evolutionary theory vs the various forms of creationism (although Christian creationism seems to get top billing more often than not.)

    It is not about Christianity vs atheism even if the neo-creationists among us seems to have a predisposition to turn the conversation that way.

    There you go being clever again.

    You forgot to mention that some of the most important neo-creationist presuppositions:
    • truth=fact; fact=truth
    • the only allowable scriptural intrepretation, especially regarding Genesis, is a indicative historical and scientifical one
    • the revelation of creation is not equal to the revelation of scripture
    • a terms in the debate are open to redefinition so long as that redefinition supports the neo-creationist world view
    • rationalization of science is perfectly acceptable in supporting scripture even if the end result is non-scientific science
    Oh, so subtle. So clever.

    How about refering to this 'side' of the debate as 'supporters of evolutionary theory' rather than slyly equating evolution to atheism and associating TEs with Godlessness? Hmmm?

    Our presuppositions would be, I think:
    • the universe (Creation for the TEs) is ordered, regular and predictable
    • reason and science are valid means by which to perceive and describe the universe
    • truth=/=fact; science is about the natural world, not the metaphysical world
    There is a lot to be learned in this forum. And a lot to be unlearned as well.
     
  14. chaoschristian

    chaoschristian Well-Known Member

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    You assume that scripture actually does say something about 'what happened 6000 years ago' without establishing that this is so.

    You seem to have forgotten that this whole '6000 year ago' thing is a completely-made-up-man-imposed-artificial-construct-of-meaning-superimposed-upon-scripture-through-really-bad-hermeneutics kind of thing.
     
  15. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    Show me the contradiction. Because I have showed you and everyone else on this board time and again where science can be used to confirm the Bible. I am sure we could come up with 5,000 or more examples of where science proves the Bible or at least parts of the Bible to be true.

    How about if you donate a dollar to missions for every example we can come up with?
     
  16. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    I do not assume anything, I have researched it so I know. For 200 years they have been looking for scientific evidence for the Bible and they have found lots of evidence to show that the Bible or parts of the Bible are true.

    Perhaps you need to go back and read what I said. I did not say anything about someones interpretation of the Bible. That is up to them to prove if there theory is right or true. I said the BIBLE spelled B-I-B-L-E. You need to quit tripping over man made opinions and beliefs and go look at the Bible itself.
     
  17. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

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    I would be more than happy to go there and show you all the evidence and proof you want. But I will not have time until after the holiday, we are just to busy right now. But then I will have time to put into that.
     
  18. chaoschristian

    chaoschristian Well-Known Member

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    So which is it? The whole thing or parts?

    I know what you said. I'm asking you if you are aware that what you said is based upon a meaning that is imposed upon scripture? I guess you do not.

    I read scripture every day. More than I used to before joining CF.

    A plain reading of scripture does not yield a 6000 years to anything. That 6000 years is based upon an interpretation that is based upon imposed meaning. It is an artificial concept and in fact alien to scripture itself.
     
  19. chaoschristian

    chaoschristian Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you have a unique and well articulated approach to this, then yes I would be interested in seeing it.
     
  20. Virgil the Roman

    Virgil the Roman Young Fogey & Monarchist-Distributist . . .

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    I guess, i believe in a YEC, in that, i know for sure, God made the world, I don't believe we 'evolved', and the earth happened to have been made probally several thousand years ago, from the calculating of the ages of those in it and trace it bace thru genologies towards Adam, and a literaltist interpretation of Genesis, then by this if literal ,which i generally try to accept these things in the bible as literal, execepting parables, similies, metaphors, and symbolism, which can be for the most part easily indentifiable, I then tend to accept a YEC as one in this thread would call, i might get chatised for being a literalist or too much of one, one could say, but this's my interpretation of scripture and the way the world goes.
     
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