New Earth Creationists Evolving

[LittleLambofJesus]

quote poster:.... FAITH OVER MATTER
Everyone of you unbelievers know, as I do, that the Bible teaches Young Earth Creation. You all probably snicker when you see other Christians compromise their faith with the opposing faiths like evolution philosophy. The truth is, You matter to God and He truly wants you to search Him out. It all boils down to faith when it comes right down to it. So do you want to continue the faith in evolution, or put your faith in the fulfilled prophecies of Jesus Christ?

I am bringing this post over from another thread.
Instead of Old Earth/Young Earth, what about New Earth Creationists in Christ Jesus?

I am what you call New Earth Creationist as the Old "Heaven and Earth" has indeed past away for me. So you can argue Old Earth and Young Earth however you want.

2 Corinthians 5:17 so that if any one [is] in Christ--[he is] a new creature/creation; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.

Galatians 6:15 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, 5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'

 

[Freodin]

Err, is that the Christian variant of Last Thursdayism?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Err, is that the Christian variant of Last Thursdayism?

Eh?

Isaiah 65:17 For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth, And the former things are not remembered, Nor do they ascend on the heart. 18 But joy ye, and rejoice for ever, that I [am] Creator, For, lo, I am creating Jerusalem a rejoicing, And her people a joy.

 

[USincognito]

Could you put the meaning of the verses you're citing into some sort of Geological context?

Of the ones you've cited, two apply to the new person you become in Christ, the other two are prophetic and refer to a time in the future, not the geologic past.

 

[rjw]

I am bringing this post over from another thread.
Instead of Old Earth/Young Earth, what about New Earth Creationists in Christ Jesus?

I am what you call New Earth Creationist as the Old "Heaven and Earth" has indeed past away for me. So you can argue Old Earth and Young Earth however you want.

2 Corinthians 5:17 so that if any one [is] in Christ--[he is] a new creature/creation; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.

Galatians 6:15 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, 5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'

Gidday LittleLambofJesus,


The problem is, "what's in a name"?

If a creationist believes that God created the world miraculously, 6000 years ago, in 6 days, that person will still be YEC. If a creationist believes that God miraculously created the universe billions of years ago and much of life, but miraculously over periods of billions of years, then the person will be OEC. If a creationist believes that the universe essentially evolves, but it does so because God miraculously designed it that way, and that he sometimes pops down perform other creative miracles with respect to life - then he/she will be ID.

Exactly what is believed will still seperate out the groups.

At the end of the day, we still have to be able to argue our positions by appealing to evidence that can be observed - thereby putting our ideas to empirical tests. Other science works this way - meteorology, astronomy, biology, zoology, palaeontology, chemistry, physics etc. It should be the same with creationism. Afterall this is supposedly about science.



Regards, Roland

 

[chaoschristian]

I am bringing this post over from another thread.
Instead of Old Earth/Young Earth, what about New Earth Creationists in Christ Jesus?

I am what you call New Earth Creationist as the Old "Heaven and Earth" has indeed past away for me. So you can argue Old Earth and Young Earth however you want.

2 Corinthians 5:17 so that if any one [is] in Christ--[he is] a new creature/creation; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.

Galatians 6:15 for in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation;

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, 5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'

Are you saying that the new Earth has come to pass? If so, then carefully think through the theology of your statements. It could be interpreted as being in alignment with a full Preterist view of Christian theology, and if so, then would be restricted to the Unorthodox Theology forum on CF.

I'm not say that you are asserting this, because I'm not quite sure what it is that you are asserting. But that was the first red flag that went up in my mind when I read your post.

 

[JohnR7]

Isaiah 65:17 For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth,

This prophecy has not been fulfilled yet. But it does give us a indication of how God works. We are told that He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Clearly the Bible is written in terms of a old earth and a new earth.

The problem of course is the new earth people do not accept the old earth, and the old earth people do not accept the new earth. Only the Gap people accept both and they only make up maybe 10% of creationists. Clearly we have our work cut out for us if we want to show people that this is the way God works.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Gidday LittleLambofJesus,
The problem is, "what's in a name"?

If a creationist believes that God created the world miraculously, 6000 years ago, in 6 days, that person will still be YEC. If a creationist believes that God miraculously created the universe billions of years ago and much of life, but miraculously over periods of billions of years, then the person will be OEC. If a creationist believes that the universe essentially evolves, but it does so because God miraculously designed it that way, and that he sometimes pops down perform other creative miracles with respect to life - then he/she will be ID.

Exactly what is believed will still seperate out the groups.

At the end of the day, we still have to be able to argue our positions by appealing to evidence that can be observed - thereby putting our ideas to empirical tests. Other science works this way - meteorology, astronomy, biology, zoology, palaeontology, chemistry, physics etc. It should be the same with creationism. Afterall this is supposedly about science.

Regards, Roland

I do not look at the Bible "scientifically" to interpret it or explain it. It is a book solely about Redemption and Salvation of Mankind. For example, what does the word "Redeem" mean?

Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from Death. O Death, I will be your plagues! O Grave, I will be your destruction! Pity is hidden from My eyes.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slaughtered, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation

 

[JohnR7]

that person will still be YEC. then the person will be OEC.

If you believe both the new earth and the old earth, then you are a GAP which is the point of this thread. YEC are right, OEC are right, no one is wrong. The problem is not in what they accept and believe so much as in what they reject and don't believe. The scientific evidence for YEC is just as solid as the evidence for OEC.

YEC is based on the Bible, or the written record of history. OEC is based on geology or the unwritten record of history. Yet written on the heart.

 

[JohnR7]

I do not look at the Bible "scientifically" to interpret it or explain it.

I look for scientific evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is lots of evidence that shows just that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

At the end of the day, we still have to be able to argue our positions by appealing to evidence that can be observed - thereby putting our ideas to empirical tests. Other science works this way - meteorology, astronomy, biology, zoology, palaeontology, chemistry, physics etc. It should be the same with creationism. Afterall this is supposedly about science.

Regards, Roland

I do not look at the Bible "scientifically" to interpret it or explain it. It is a book solely about Redemption and Salvation of Mankind. For example, what does the word "Redeem" mean?

Hosea 13:14 "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from Death. O Death, I will be your plagues! O Grave, I will be your destruction! Pity is hidden from My eyes.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slaughtered, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation

I look for scientific evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is lots of evidence that shows just that.

That is not the purpose of the Bible in my view. How do you perceive "redemption" scientifically?

 

[JohnR7]

That is not the purpose of the Bible in my view.

I was talking about the purpose of science.

How do you perceive "redemption" scientifically?

That is a real issue because clearly creation is in a fallen state and creation looks forward to redemption.

Romans 8:19-22 (nkjv)
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. [20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; [21] because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

 

[Lord_Marx]

I look for scientific evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is lots of evidence that shows just that.

You post this in every topic but you never say what this proof is...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

JohnR7:I look for scientific evidence that shows the Bible is true. There is lots of evidence that shows just that.

You post this in every topic but you never say what this proof is...

I was wondering something. Has Solomon's temple ever been proven to exist? We know the "flood" erased any proof of the "garden of eden".

John 18:36 Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.'

 

[JohnR7]

I was wondering something. Has Solomon's temple ever been proven to exist? We know the "flood" erased any proof of the "garden of eden".

As far as I know they rebuilt the temple on the same foundation that is still there today. Of course it was destroyed a second time in 70 ad. Well, the wailing wall is still there and they believe that the muslim building is located on what was the court of the gentiles.

Solomon's temple was built from the cedars of lebanon and that is a protected tree now in lebanon, there are still small patches of them left but the great forests are no longer there. The Bible says that outside of Eden the Forests in Lebanon was the most beautiful.

About all we can find from Eden is what we read about in our Bible: lambs, goats, cattle, barley, wheat and so forth. All of these things tend to be native to that area in Turkey or Armenia and they just showed up about 6,000 years ago. There is really no record of them before that point in time.

This should be no surprise to anyone that there was a fresh new creation in Eden 6,000 years ago.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I was wondering something. Has Solomon's temple ever been proven to exist? We know the "flood" erased any proof of the "garden of eden".

John 18:36 Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.'

As far as I know they rebuilt the temple on the same foundation that is still there today. Of course it was destroyed a second time in 70 ad. Well, the wailing wallis still there and they believe that the muslim building is located on what was the court of the gentiles.

Yes. Almost as if the Temple and Sanctuary never existed.

John 11:48 if we may let Him alone thus, all will believe in Him; and the Romans will come, and will take away both our place and nation.'

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing! and Measure Ye! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.

 

[Mocca]

I do not look at the Bible "scientifically" to interpret it or explain it.

 

[JohnR7]

Yes. Almost as if the Temple and Sanctuary never existed.

1 Chron. 21:18
Therefore, the angel of the Lord commanded Gad to say to David that David should go and erect an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

David bought the threshing floor to build the temple on. He left it to his decendants and it was to never leave the family. That is why there was a issue with Jesus, because He claimed the right to the temple as a inhertance from David. Only they did not realize that when he returns the second time is when He will claim the temple site. He will rule and reign the world from Jerusalem and we will rule and reign with Him.

I suppose this sounds more than a little bit unusual, but that is what the Bible teaches.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

1 Chron. 21:18
Therefore, the angel of the Lord commanded Gad to say to David that David should go and erect an altar to the Lord on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

David bought the threshing floor to build the temple on. He left it to his decendants and it was to never leave the family. That is why there was a issue with Jesus, because He claimed the right to the temple as a inhertance from David. Only they did not realize that when he returns the second time is when He will claim the temple site. He will rule and reign the world from Jerusalem and we will rule and reign with Him.

I suppose this sounds more than a little bit unusual, but that is what the Bible teaches.

It might sound that way to the jews, muslims and atheists, but that appears what Revelation is saying.

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD.14 The great day of the LORD [is] near; [It is] near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out. 15 That day [is] a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, 16 A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the high towers. 17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like refuse."

 

[Mocca]

My my, this has evolved into quite a theological discussion.

I do think that this sort of theological discussion is more appropriate for the Origins Theology forum, however.