New Creationist theory on how life spread out after the flood.

[Subduction Zone]

Now this I have studied and it is a very detailed and touchy subject. One thing is for sure. The Israelites were there first and occupied it the longest. There was a small patch of it where some Philistines, Ammonites and Edomites were living but that is it.

The Koran does not contain divine authenticity, does not state that it is words from God and does not make prophecies that came true. They do trace their right to the land back to Abraham through Ishmael, who they say was Arabic. (In fact they change even Jesus to an Arab for their purposes.)

The fact is that through the results of WWII the Palestinians live there now on parts of the land and have lived there for some time. So the only real solution is a truce and peace and a sharing of the land.

Who Owns the Land? by Stanley A. Ellisen

The Muslims would say pretty much the same about your Bible.


And if we saw Jesus today we would probably call him an Arab too.

 

[Lethe]

The Koran does not contain divine authenticity, does not state that it is words from God and does not make prophecies that came true.

You know how you write about prophecies that came true? You write about historical events as if they were in the future.

 

[EternalDragon]

The Muslims would say pretty much the same about your Bible.


And if we saw Jesus today we would probably call him an Arab too.

They could say it but the truth from the Bible's words will confirm as a false accusation. I have read both books. One reads like a story (one book by one man) someone is telling and makes no claims to be words from God and the other (which is many books from many authors) reads like a story sent to them and constantly claims this throughout all books.

Jesus was definitely not Arab. They trace themselves back to Arabia. Jesus' genealogy is listed in the Bible all the way to Adam. If you want to get technical everyone is in some way part of each other and all related back to Adam.

But the promises from God as to that land were given to Abraham. Then to Moses. Then to King David for the Israelites. Not the Arabs.

 

[CabVet]

Now this I have studied and it is a very detailed and touchy subject. One thing is for sure. The Israelites were there first and occupied it the longest. There was a small patch of it where some Philistines, Ammonites and Edomites were living but that is it.

Native Americans were first and occupied the US for much longer than Europeans did. I am sure they have sacred writings that entitle them to their land then. Should we just pack up and leave?

The Koran does not contain divine authenticity

Now that's just precious. Go tell this to a Muslim.

does not state that it is words from God and does not make prophecies that came true.

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but if you deny the prophecies in the Qur'an you are denying the prophecies in the old testament.

 

[EternalDragon]

Native Americans were first and occupied the US for much longer than Europeans did. I am sure they have sacred writings that entitle them to their land then. Should we just pack up and leave?

That would be quite impossible at this time but I would pretty much agree that they have more right to America than we do. Regardless they themselves considered the land free. The were nomadic and did not think any man had a right to own the land.

Now that's just precious. Go tell this to a Muslim.

I am going by what the book claims or does not claim. Not by what a group believes it claims.

I am not sure if you are aware of this, but if you deny the prophecies in the Qur'an you are denying the prophecies in the old testament.

Yeah, Mohammad highjacked a lot from the Bible when he read it and then wrote the Koran....in a cave.....by himself.

 

[CabVet]

They could say it but the truth from the Bible's words will confirm as a false accusation. I have read both books. One reads like a story (one book by one man) someone is telling and makes no claims to be words from God and the other (which is many books from many authors) reads like a story sent to them and constantly claims this throughout all books.

Yeah, the "truth" of religious books will now be established by "how they read". Really? The only difference between the Qur'an and the Bible is that one reads like it was written by one person and the other by multiple authors.

Jesus was definitely not Arab. They trace themselves back to Arabia. Jesus' genealogy is listed in the Bible all the way to Adam.

Aren't you forgetting something? According to creationism and everything in the Bible, everyone in this planet can trace themselves back to Adam.

If you want to get technical everyone is in some way part of each other and all related back to Adam.

Just a technicality, right?

But the promises from God as to that land were given to Abraham. Then to Moses. Then to King David for the Israelites. Not the Arabs.

Careful, your xenophobia is showing.

 

[AV1611VET]

And if we saw Jesus today we would probably call him an Arab too.

That's why you won't see Jesus today, unless you get saved and the Rapture occurs right after that.

 

[LastSeven]

The Koran and the old testament are two different books.

 

[EternalDragon]

Yeah, the "truth" of religious books will now be established by "how they read". Really? The only difference between the Qur'an and the Bible is that one reads like it was written by one person and the other by multiple authors.

Obviously you are not speaking from any personal knowledge.

The bible repeatedly has God speaking directly to prophets through the burning bush, to directly on the mountain and by angels. It constantly claims the words are from God, "thus saith the lord", God breathed, inspired by God, not of private interpretation, guided by God to write and on and on.

The Koran.....nothing like this except for one passage that quotes the Jewish bible and says "God says:"

 

[HitchSlap]

The Koran and the old testament are two different books.

Five to seven, actually.

 

[Loudmouth]

The bible repeatedly has God speaking directly to prophets through the burning bush, to directly on the mountain and by angels. It constantly claims the words are from God, "thus saith the lord", God breathed, inspired by God, not of private interpretation, guided by God to write and on and on.

These are all claims made by men with no evidence to back them up.

 

[LastSeven]

You know how you write about prophecies that came true? You write about historical events as if they were in the future.

There is ample evidence that even secular authorities would agree confirm the fulfillment of biblical prophecies. For all the skeptics out there, here is a small sampling of fulfilled biblical prophecies for your enjoyment, each with their respective probability of fulfillment. From this site.

(1) Some time before 500 B.C. the prophet Daniel proclaimed that Israel's long-awaited Messiah would begin his public ministry 483 years after the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25-26). He further predicted that the Messiah would be "cut off," killed, and that this event would take place prior to a second destruction of Jerusalem. Abundant documentation shows that these prophecies were perfectly fulfilled in the life (and crucifixion) of Jesus Christ. The decree regarding the restoration of Jerusalem was issued by Persia's King Artaxerxes to the Hebrew priest Ezra in 458 B.C., 483 years later the ministry of Jesus Christ began in Galilee. (Remember that due to calendar changes, the date for the start of Christ's ministry is set by most historians at about 26 A.D. Also note that from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D. is just one year.) Jesus' crucifixion occurred only a few years later, and about four decades later, in 70 A.D. came the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]5[/sup].)*

(2) In approximately 700 B.C. the prophet Micah named the tiny village of Bethlehem as the birthplace of Israel's Messiah (Micah 5:2). The fulfillment of this prophecy in the birth of Christ is one of the most widely known and widely celebrated facts in history.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]5[/sup].)

(3) In the fifth century B.C. a prophet named Zechariah declared that the Messiah would be betrayed for the price of a slave—thirty pieces of silver, according to Jewish law-and also that this money would be used to buy a burial ground for Jerusalem's poor foreigners (Zechariah 11:12-13). Bible writers and secular historians both record thirty pieces of silver as the sum paid to Judas Iscariot for betraying Jesus, and they indicate that the money went to purchase a "potter's field," used—just as predicted—for the burial of poor aliens (Matthew 27:3-10).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]11[/sup].)

(4) Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]13[/sup].)

(5) The prophet Isaiah foretold that a conqueror named Cyrus would destroy seemingly impregnable Babylon and subdue Egypt along with most of the rest of the known world. This same man, said Isaiah, would decide to let the Jewish exiles in his territory go free without any payment of ransom (Isaiah 44:28; 45:1; and 45:13). Isaiah made this prophecy 150 years before Cyrus was born, 180 years before Cyrus performed any of these feats (and he did, eventually, perform them all), and 80 years before the Jews were taken into exile.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]15[/sup].)

(6) Mighty Babylon, 196 miles square, was enclosed not only by a moat, but also by a double wall 330 feet high, each part 90 feet thick. It was said by unanimous popular opinion to be indestructible, yet two Bible prophets declared its doom. These prophets further claimed that the ruins would be avoided by travelers, that the city would never again be inhabited, and that its stones would not even be moved for use as building material (Isaiah 13:17-22 and Jeremiah 51:26, 43). Their description is, in fact, the well-documented history of the famous citadel.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]9[/sup].)

(7) The exact location and construction sequence of Jerusalem's nine suburbs was predicted by Jeremiah about 2600 years ago. He referred to the time of this building project as "the last days," that is, the time period of Israel's second rebirth as a nation in the land of Palestine (Jeremiah 31:38-40). This rebirth became history in 1948, and the construction of the nine suburbs has gone forward precisely in the locations and in the sequence predicted.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]18[/sup].)

(8) The prophet Moses foretold (with some additions by Jeremiah and Jesus) that the ancient Jewish nation would be conquered twice and that the people would be carried off as slaves each time, first by the Babylonians (for a period of 70 years), and then by a fourth world kingdom (which we know as Rome). The second conqueror, Moses said, would take the Jews captive to Egypt in ships, selling them or giving them away as slaves to all parts of the world. Both of these predictions were fulfilled to the letter, the first in 607 B.C. and the second in 70 A.D. God's spokesmen said, further, that the Jews would remain scattered throughout the entire world for many generations, but without becoming assimilated by the peoples or of other nations, and that the Jews would one day return to the land of Palestine to re-establish for a second time their nation (Deuteronomy 29; Isaiah 11:11-13; Jeremiah 25:11; Hosea 3:4-5 and Luke 21:23-24).

This prophetic statement sweeps across 3500 years of history to its complete fulfillment—in our lifetime.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1[sup]20[/sup].)

(9) Jeremiah predicted that despite its fertility and despite the accessibility of its water supply, the land of Edom (today a part of Jordan) would become a barren, uninhabited wasteland (Jeremiah 49:15-20; Ezekiel 25:12-14). His description accurately tells the history of that now bleak region.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]5[/sup].)

(10) Joshua prophesied that Jericho would be rebuilt by one man. He also said that the man's eldest son would die when the reconstruction began and that his youngest son would die when the work reached completion (Joshua 6:26). About five centuries later this prophecy found its fulfillment in the life and family of a man named Hiel (1 Kings 16:33-34).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]7[/sup]).

(11) The day of Elijah's supernatural departure from Earth was predicted unanimously—and accurately, according to the eye-witness account—by a group of fifty prophets (2 Kings 2:3-11).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]9[/sup]).

(12) Jahaziel prophesied that King Jehoshaphat and a tiny band of men would defeat an enormous, well-equipped, well-trained army without even having to fight. Just as predicted, the King and his troops stood looking on as their foes were supernaturally destroyed to the last man (2 Chronicles 20).

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]8[/sup]).

(13) One prophet of God (unnamed, but probably Shemiah) said that a future king of Judah, named Josiah, would take the bones of all the occultic priests (priests of the "high places") of Israel's King Jeroboam and burn them on Jeroboam's altar (1 Kings 13:2 and 2 Kings 23:15-18). This event occurred approximately 300 years after it was foretold.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 10[sup]13[/sup]).

Since these thirteen prophecies cover mostly separate and independent events, the probability of chance occurrence for all thirteen is about 1 in 10[sup]138[/sup] (138 equals the sum of all the exponents of 10 in the probability estimates above). For the sake of putting the figure into perspective, this probability can be compared to the statistical chance that the second law of thermodynamics will be reversed in a given situation (for example, that a gasoline engine will refrigerate itself during its combustion cycle or that heat will flow from a cold body to a hot body)—that chance = 1 in 10[sup]80[/sup]. Stating it simply, based on these thirteen prophecies alone, the Bible record may be said to be vastly more reliable than the second law of thermodynamics. Each reader should feel free to make his own reasonable estimates of probability for the chance fulfillment of the prophecies cited here. In any case, the probabilities deduced still will be absurdly remote.

Given that the Bible proves so reliable a document, there is every reason to expect that the remaining 500 prophecies, those slated for the "time of the end," also will be fulfilled to the last letter. Who can afford to ignore these coming events, much less miss out on the immeasurable blessings offered to anyone and everyone who submits to the control of the Bible's author, Jesus Christ? Would a reasonable person take lightly God's warning of judgment for those who reject what they know to be true about Jesus Christ and the Bible, or who reject Jesus' claim on their lives?

*The estimates of probability included herein come from a group of secular research scientists. As an example of their method of estimation, consider their calculations for this first prophecy cited:

Since the Messiah's ministry could conceivably begin in any one of about 5000 years, there is, then, one chance in about 5000 that his ministry could begin in 26 A.D.

Since the Messiah is God in human form, the possibility of his being killed is considerably low, say less than one chance in 10.

Relative to the second destruction of Jerusalem, this execution has roughly an even chance of occurring before or after that event, that is, one chance in 2.

Hence, the probability of chance fulfillment for this prophecy is 1 in 5000 x 10 x 2, which is 1 in 100,000, or 1 in 10[sup]5[/sup].

 

[LastSeven]

Here are another ten. These are a shorter and perhaps easier to understand. From this site.

Predicted ca. 855 BC: The prophet Elijah predicts Jezebel would be eaten by dogs upon her death in Jezreel. (1 Kings 21:23)– Fulfilled ca. 841 BC: Jezebel is killed in Jezreel and dogs eat her body (2 Kings 9:36).

Predicted ca. 760 BC: Amos predicts Israel would be restored as a nation and would never be uprooted again (Amos 9:15)–Fulfilled in 1948.

Predicted ca 732 BC: Isaiah predicts the Medo-Persian empire will conquer Babylon [Isaiah 13:17-18] and Babylon would become a wasteland.–Fulfilled in 538 BC when the Medes took over Babylon and 275 BC when the Seleucids forced all of the inhabitants to leave.

Predicted ca. 732 BC: Isaiah says Egypt and Ethiopia would be conquered by Assyria (Isaiah 20:3-5).–Fulfilled ca. 673-670 BC when Assyria conquers the northeast African nations.

Predicted ca. 701 BC: Isaiah claims Israel will be taken captive by the Babylonian empire (Isaiah 39).–Fulfilled ca. 597 & 586 BC: Babylon takes captives and sacks Jerusalem the first time then totally destroys Jerusalem about 10 years later.

Predicted ca. 589 BC: Ezekiel tells about the fall of the great city Tyre, claiming that the Lord “will cause many nations to come up against thee,” (Ezekiel 26, 27).–Fulfilled in 586-573 BC: Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon lays siege against the city. Fulfilled in 370s BC: a king of Cyprus conquers the city. Fulfilled in 332 BC: Alexander the Great conquers the city. Fulfilled in 315-316 BC: Antigonus, who served under Alexander, attacks and conquers the city. Fulfilled in 1124: The city falls to the Crusaders. Fulfilled in 1291: The city falls to the Muslim armies of the Mameluks.

Predicted ca. 543 BC: Daniel tells of a great Grecian king who would conquer the Persian empire but would have his kingdom divided four ways after his death (Daniel 8).–Fulfilled in 330 BC when Alexander the Great defeats Persia and 281 BC after the Greek generals who succeed Alexander reach an agreement after years of war to split the kingdom four ways.

Predicted ca. 536 BC: Daniel prophesies that the Greek empire would not go to Alexander the Great’s heirs (Daniel 11).–Fulfilled ca. 323-281 BC after Alexander’s death when his generals fight over the kingdom while shutting out (and killing) his heirs.

Predicted ca. 430 BC: Malachi prophesies that Yahweh’s name would be honored by the Gentiles (pagans) (Malachi 1:11).–Fulfilled 1st century AD to the present: Pagans worldwide have forsaken their paganism and have confessed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Predicted ca. 30 AD: Jesus tells his disciples that they will be persecuted and hated by the majority of the people on the earth because they follow him (Matthew 24:9).–Fulfilled 1st century AD to the present: Ever since the gospel of Jesus Christ has been preached, millions of true Christians worldwide have been mistreated or killed for the faith.

 

[keith99]

The Muslims would say pretty much the same about your Bible.


And if we saw Jesus today we would probably call him an Arab too.

You do know that the Bible is a Holy book of Islam?

 

[CabVet]

Here are another ten. These are a shorter and perhaps easier to understand.

Nostradamus has a better record than that.

 

[LastSeven]

That's a pathetic response.

 

[bhsmte]

That's a pathetic response.

Even William Lane Craig doesn't rely on prophecies when trying to prove that God exists, because he knows he would get crushed with the response.

 

[CabVet]

That's a pathetic response.

No, it's a pathetic way to support the Bible.

 

[HitchSlap]

No, it's a pathetic way to support the Bible.

It's actually cute in a naive sort of way. It's like a kid wanting Santa to be real, so she lists all the evidence she can think of the keep the dream alive.

 

[LastSeven]

No, it's a pathetic way to support the Bible.

Right. o.k. Listing two pages full of fulfilled biblical prophecies in no way supports my statement of faith.

Keep chirping away with your clever little jokes if that makes you feel better. Wake me up when you want to discuss the prophecies.