Needing justification for morality

[DogmaHunter]

Granted. Not everyone want to be a slave even the system is good. Yes, if my master told me to plow, I have to plow even I like to write. To obey my master is my job description. If I don't like it and if I can afford to, then I will try to get out of the slavery at the 7th year.

Hey, do not be hypocritical. Today, many many "free person" are working exactly the same way. How many people "like to" flip burgers in a restaurant? The only difference is that they probably only do that 8 hours a day. But at the same time, they have to pay for their own food and rent. And if they are sick or injured, their employer may start to consider to fire them. The employer don't care if one would starve after the layoff. I think the situation would be much worse than what a slave is.

To have a slave is a burden. If my slave is sick, I am responsible to get him well. If he is disabled, I may still need to keep him until an acceptable arrangement is made for him. Don't forget that a slave is also a human. We let our cows and horses work for us. But we also take care of them and do not abuse them.

Slavery is a beautiful system.

I'm shivering as I'm reading.

You are taking the concept of "morally bankrup" to new heights.

I'm ... at a loss of words.

 

[DogmaHunter]

So the Dogma Hunter declares God to be wrong, unconditionally. I think Dogma Hunter has found his dogma.

No.

I declare genocide to be morally reprehensible.
And anyone trying to justify it in any context to be wrong. Unconditionally.

If you say that your god is okay, with genocide, then from this follows that your god is morally reprehensible. And thus wrong.

Where exactly is the hypocracy?

It's simple premise, premise, conclusion.

 

[DogmaHunter]

An obvious answer is: Because God says so.

Except off course, when he says the opposite. As you demonstrate here:

Genocide, in general, is absolutely not moral.
The particular genocide, ordered by God 4000 years ago, is absolutely moral.

So genocide is not moral, except when god says so
Theft is not moral, except when god says so
<insert immoral act> is not moral, except when god says so


In other words: complete and utter moral bankrupcy. This is not morality. This is blind obedience to a perceived authority. Psychopathy.

And I am the hypocritical one, ha?

Give me a break.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not ethical, but practical.
If steal is proven beneficial to us in every case, then God would say: Steal.
God loves us. He will not tell us to do anything which is harmful to us.

Except when he does. Like ordering genocide. Or engaging in it himself. Multiple times.

There are many people whole steal big and die in richness and in full age.

And many, many more aren't that lucky.

Steal can be fully justified super easy in humanism.

No.

Obama (or communist) steals money from riches. Poor people love him.

 

[keith99]

No.

I declare genocide to be morally reprehensible.
And anyone trying to justify it in any context to be wrong. Unconditionally.

If you say that your god is okay, with genocide, then from this follows that your god is morally reprehensible. And thus wrong.

Where exactly is the hypocracy?

It's simple premise, premise, conclusion.

What definition of genocide do you use?

Are you limiting it to one 'race' of Homo Sapiens whipping out another or do you include wiping out a species?

If the later there are some I'll support.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes, several battles. But it was ONE order for ONE purpose. Like the Flood, it never happened again.

Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if a mass murderer used that as a defense in court.

"it was just this one time for this one purpose... I won't do it again, it's over now... I swear, next time I'll find some other creative way to kill millions of people"

The Bible repeats that order several times in the Pentateuch because Israelites did not listen to God.

That just tells me that the Israelites were morally superior to that god.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What definition of genocide do you use?

Are you limiting it to one 'race' of Homo Sapiens whipping out another or do you include wiping out a species?

If the later there are some I'll support.

I'ld say the indiscriminate mass murder of a certain defined group of people. Grouped by for example ethnicity, nationality, religious affiliation, etc.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It is not a "punishment".

The benefit is: The guarantee of surviving and prosperity.

Except off course, for those that die in the ongoing slaughter of human beings - on both sides.

Because he "loves us".

 

[DogmaHunter]

I think the purpose here it to point out that the existence of morality has spiritual meaning. That there are ethical norms means that there is a God.

Why? I don't see how you get from one to the other.
You're just asserting it.

So, please explain and elaborate.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm shivering as I'm reading.

You are taking the concept of "morally bankrup" to new heights.

I'm ... at a loss of words.

I am glad you learned.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Get lost.

What prompted that? I was asking seriously. I'm flabbergasted that you can't see the problems with your own viewpoint.

Even you must see there's a great potential for Poe's law to apply here.

 

[juvenissun]

Except off course, when he says the opposite. As you demonstrate here:



So genocide is not moral, except when god says so
Theft is not moral, except when god says so
<insert immoral act> is not moral, except when god says so


In other words: complete and utter moral bankrupcy. This is not morality. This is blind obedience to a perceived authority. Psychopathy.

And I am the hypocritical one, ha?

Give me a break.

Yes, the formula works, provided if God does say so.
Challenge you to find me a verse which God says thou shalt steal.

Poor man with a stubborn mind.

 

[juvenissun]

Except off course, for those that die in the ongoing slaughter of human beings - on both sides.

Because he "loves us".

Yes. However, you do not love Him. Then you meet your fate.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I am glad you learned.

I learned that you're the worst case of moral bankrupcy I have ever come across. I've spoken with a few fundamentalists concerning the psychopathic divine command theory before, but you sire take the cake. Hands down. No question.

Personally - and I mean this in the nicest way possible - I'm starting to think you have some sort of mental / psychiatric disorder.

The things you have said in this thread are not normal. Not even remotely.

You defend genocide. You defend slavery. You even call it "beautifull".

Seriously, this is beyond abnormal. This is fruitcake-level crazyiness.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Yes. However, you do not love Him. Then you meet your fate.

Is it moral to burn someone for eternity because they don't love you?

 

[Jeremy E Walker]

I learned that you're the worst case of moral bankrupcy I have ever come across. I've spoken with a few fundamentalists concerning the psychopathic divine command theory before, but you sire take the cake. Hands down. No question.

Personally - and I mean this in the nicest way possible - I'm starting to think you have some sort of mental / psychiatric disorder.

The things you have said in this thread are not normal. Not even remotely.

You defend genocide. You defend slavery. You even call it "beautifull".

Seriously, this is beyond abnormal. This is fruitcake-level crazyiness.

DogmaHunter, are you familiar with the Moral Argument for the Existence of God?

The one formulated as:

1. If God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2. Objective moral values and duties exist.

3. Therefore, God exists.

 

[Dave Ellis]

DogmaHunter, are you familiar with the Moral Argument for the Existence of God?

The one formulated as:

1. If God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2. Objective moral values and duties exist.

3. Therefore, God exists.

And since your premises are flawed, your conclusion is not justified.

 

[Huntun]

1 and 2 are both questionable. Do you have any evidence you could present to confirm them?

 

[juvenissun]

Is it moral to burn someone for eternity because they don't love you?

It is only moral if he wants to have himself burnt. Nobody is burning him except himself.

 

[juvenissun]

I learned that you're the worst case of moral bankrupcy I have ever come across. I've spoken with a few fundamentalists concerning the psychopathic divine command theory before, but you sire take the cake. Hands down. No question.

Personally - and I mean this in the nicest way possible - I'm starting to think you have some sort of mental / psychiatric disorder.

The things you have said in this thread are not normal. Not even remotely.

You defend genocide. You defend slavery. You even call it "beautifull".

Seriously, this is beyond abnormal. This is fruitcake-level crazyiness.

No more rational argument?
If so, you can be dismissed.