Needing justification for morality

[quatona]

Not at all. It shows the wisdom and love from God.

You aren´t even trying anymore, are you?

 

[Huntun]

Calling a lack of belief in something like a god an "ism" (atheism) can lead to misunderstandings. It's not actually a worldview in and of itself and shouldn't be expected to be the basis for a moral theory or to militate against having one. Atheists might be expected to have moral theories but they probably wont grow out of the god they lack belief in. It would be like complaining that "athorism" (lack of belief in Thor) is no basis for morality. Yeah, your right but so what?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, several battles. But it was ONE order for ONE purpose. Like the Flood, it never happened again. The Bible repeats that order several times in the Pentateuch because Israelites did not listen to God.

And what kind of benevolent being punishes people like that?

 

[juvenissun]

And what kind of benevolent being punishes people like that?

It is not a "punishment".

The benefit is: The guarantee of surviving and prosperity.

 

[juvenissun]

Your god also supports slavery (Both old and new testament, and not just as indentured servitude).

How is slavery to our benefit? Do you think slavery is moral?

A slave is a person. Recognize that first.

A slave is your property. You can "use" your property the way you like to. But do not forget he is also a person. And do not forget God says we should let our slaves go free after his six-year service.

With that understanding, I do think slavery is moral. However, I guess you already see, to abuse your slave (not treating him as a person) is not moral.

To have a slave is much harder than you think.

 

[juvenissun]

Calling a lack of belief in something like a god an "ism" (atheism) can lead to misunderstandings. It's not actually a worldview in and of itself and shouldn't be expected to be the basis for a moral theory or to militate against having one. Atheists might be expected to have moral theories but they probably wont grow out of the god they lack belief in. It would be like complaining that "athorism" (lack of belief in Thor) is no basis for morality. Yeah, your right but so what?

So, morality is not only conceptual, theoretical, but ultimately, is practical.

Be moral, so you can live longer and better in this world.
If you believe in God, then be moral, so you can live better in eternity.

Which one is more practical in the above two?

 

[tacdon]

And what kind of benevolent being punishes people like that?

I hope you accept Jesus as your lord and savior, otherwise you will go to hell.

Do you think your smarter than God.

 

[Davian]

And what kind of benevolent being punishes people like that?

I hope you accept Jesus as your lord and savior, otherwise you will go to hell.

Nice. I thought "benevolent" would be something other than "go to hell".

Do you think your smarter than God.

Does God not have a dictionary?

 

[tacdon]

Nice. I thought "benevolent" would be something other than "go to hell".

Does God not have a dictionary?

What do you mean does God not have a dictionary.

 

[Dave Ellis]

An obvious answer is: Because God says so.

Why does God say so? Because it is for our benefit. God loves us and tells us what to do and what not to do.

Whatever God tells us to do is for our benefit. That is the practical function of morality.

So, the answer to your question is: To steal IS harmful, even not get caught.

Because God says so is not a reason, even if your god exists and he said don't steal. In short, "Because god said so" is a pronouncement, but it gives no reason why.

The reason why you should not steal is the same reason why God would tell you not to steal.

So, why should you not steal?

 

[Dave Ellis]

It is not a "punishment".

The benefit is: The guarantee of surviving and prosperity.

Wait, did you just say ordering or committing genocide is the guarantee of survival and prosperity?

I'm sorry, but if that's the best your god can come up with, I can think of better ideas on how to secure survival and prosperity.

 

[Dave Ellis]

A slave is a person. Recognize that first.

A slave is your property. You can "use" your property the way you like to. But do not forget he is also a person. And do not forget God says we should let our slaves go free after his six-year service.

No he doesn't. Hebrew slaves could go free, all non Hebrews were your property for life, and could be passed on to your children. The vast majority of biblical slavery was as bad if not worse than US slavery.

With that understanding, I do think slavery is moral. However, I guess you already see, to abuse your slave (not treating him as a person) is not moral.

To have a slave is much harder than you think.

Yeah, and pimpin' ain't easy either... This is one of the most morally revolting posts I've ever read on here.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I hope you accept Jesus as your lord and savior, otherwise you will go to hell.

Do you think your smarter than God.

If he's an atheist, that's a nonsensical question. How can you be considered smarter than a non-existent being?

For example, are you smarter than Hercules? There's no possible way to answer that question.

 

[brightlights]

With the whole atheist morality debate I heard a consistent idea from theists is that atheists do have morals, just no reason to adhere to them. But, they do admit that atheists have morals, so why is there any need for justification? Do theists think that atheists will suddenly abandon their morals randomly at some later date? I'm not saying that there is no justification, but why does it matter anyway? If a theist had no justification, would their actions change?

I think the purpose here it to point out that the existence of morality has spiritual meaning. That there are ethical norms means that there is a God. Because all people embrace ethical norms of some type all people implicitly accept God's existence.

 

[tacdon]

Wait, did you just say ordering or committing genocide is the guarantee of survival and prosperity?

I'm sorry, but if that's the best your god can come up with, I can think of better ideas on how to secure survival and prosperity.

Another person who thinks their smarter than God. God created the universe from nothing, not one person has ever done that.

 

[Chany]

Another person who thinks their smarter than God. God created the universe from nothing, not one person has ever done that.

We don't think your god is real. It didn't create the universe, because it's not real.

 

[juvenissun]

Wait, did you just say ordering or committing genocide is the guarantee of survival and prosperity?

I'm sorry, but if that's the best your god can come up with, I can think of better ideas on how to secure survival and prosperity.

I have answered and explained. I am not going to repeat it.
Going back to find my answers. Or, leave it.

 

[juvenissun]

No he doesn't. Hebrew slaves could go free, all non Hebrews were your property for life, and could be passed on to your children. The vast majority of biblical slavery was as bad if not worse than US slavery.

Yeah, and pimpin' ain't easy either... This is one of the most morally revolting posts I've ever read on here.

You are right. Back in that time, Jews and gentiles are different because the Jewish God is not recognized by gentiles. But, gentiles could be treated as Jews after a few generations lived in Jewish land.

You treat your slaves well and they might be loyal to you and even save your life. It is a beautiful system.

The only thing bad about slavery is the bad human nature. Which is bad not only to the slavery, but is bad to everything else. Any system, moral or not, if we do it wrong, it would be ended as immoral.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Another person who thinks their smarter than God. God created the universe from nothing, not one person has ever done that.

Not only is that utterly meaningless to an atheist, as I don't believe your god exists...

That's a red herring, as it does not address my point. Are you actually saying that an all powerful, all knowing being must order genocides in order to ensure prosperity? Why would this being choose to set things up that way?

It's hideous, and it's shameful that you're choosing to make excuses for genocide.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I have answered and explained. I am not going to repeat it.
Going back to find my answers. Or, leave it.

Yes, and your explanations are not at all convincing, nor in line with anything a moral being would order.

There's no need to repeat it, because you'd be equally wrong the second time around.