Need some help with the Hebrew Gen 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second pers

[bling]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

 

[daq]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

Perhaps this may help:

It was the mother of all chay, (not chayah or chayim) which responded to the serpent:
"From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat . . ." (Genesis 3:2b).

 

[HannibalFlavius]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

Adam and Eve were,'' Adam.''

The two were truly one.

If Jesus is raised the New Adam, who is his wife that he was lain down in a sleep of death to get?

Jesus is in his wife.

Was Adam also?


I would say that Adam and Eve represent a single person and the two of them together were the most beautiful creature.

Does your body speak to you about what it sees and wants?

It does, and the 3 of you agree as one.



This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.



There is the image of God, and the image of man.


The 3 that witness in Earth mirror the 3 in heaven.



So when I think of the most beautiful creature, Adam, Eve, I see the 3 that agree as one because whatever one has done, the other two have also done, and the conversation going on between the 3 is a conversation taking place within a single entity.


Meh, just thinking out loud, thought I might play in the water.

 

[Laureate]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

We are the many (surving) members of One person's body, We were all there when it went down, if you follow Y'shua's line of logic.

For me, it serves as a point of accountability, We are yet One person in the Eyes of Elohym, though its a tough pill to swallow, darned thing always gets stuck in my throat, but it washes down just fine if you take it with a glass of humility.

In Ezek. 37:3 Ezekiel is addressed as 'The Son of Adam', as such Elohym is addressing one person as if he were all of Mankind/the son(s) of Adam), thus one is to wonder is Elohym instructing one man to bring about the resurrection of the dead, or is He instructing all of Mankind to do so, and the answer is yes! to both, for the one is inside the other.

 

[mercy1061]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

The scripture actually tells us who the serpent was talking to.

 

[yonah_mishael]

I was told in Gen. 3: 1-4 The serpent address Eve using second person plural. And the second person plural is an irregular form and the gender is female, but it is still plural and the only other one in the story is Adam.

Any suggestion on how to check this out without learning Hebrew?

Suggesting the serpent is talking to both Adam and Eve.

This is the passage in Hebrew:

וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֨אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃ וַתֹּ֥אמֶר הָֽאִשָּׁ֖ה אֶל־הַנָּחָ֑שׁ מִפְּרִ֥י עֵֽץ־הַגָּ֖ן נֹאכֵֽל׃ וּמִפְּרִ֣י הָעֵץ֮ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּתוֹךְ־הַגָּן֒ אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֗ים לֹ֤א תֹֽאכְלוּ֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ וְלֹ֥א תִגְּע֖וּ בּ֑וֹ פֶּן־תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־מ֖וֹת תְּמֻתֽוּן׃​

When the serpent addresses the woman, it is in the common third-person plural. There are no feminine third-person plurals used here. In the two instances in which “you shall die” appears, it is defective (missing one instance of the letter vav [ו]) and takes an unnecessary final nun [ן]. Thus, we have תמתון (tamutun) instead of תמותו (tamutu). This is not the feminine plural form, which would be תָּמוֹתְנָה (tamotna). Both defective spelling and the addition of a final nun to plural verbal forms is common in biblical Hebrew. This form is neither “irregular” (assuming that you mean “unusual” or “uncommon&#8221 nor feminine plural.

The “you” of this dialogue is in the masculine plural, which includes the woman and her husband.

 

[Lulav]

Hey Yonah How's it going? Fly anywhere interesting lately?

So to clarify, the 'serpent' was speaking to 'Adam' mankind, right?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Hey Yonah How's it going? Fly anywhere interesting lately?

So to clarify, the 'serpent' was speaking to 'Adam' mankind, right?

Leaving for Hong Kong tomorrow.

The serpent spoke to Eve, not Adam.

Be well.

 

[daq]

Leaving for Hong Kong tomorrow.

The serpent spoke to Eve, not Adam.

Be well.

Hey Yonah,
Perhaps then "the mother of all chay" responded as she always does?

 

[daq]

I hope you did not take what I said as anything negative toward yourself Yonah. I agree with your statement and was only attempting to build upon it. The wife is the "helpmate" but the two are "one flesh" and she is deceived. It is an allegory once again. Paul says not to even let her speak out in the congregation and she is certainly not to have dominion over the man. She is raw life, (chay) and can only continue, ("be saved") through physical child birth. In fact Paul states in another place "But I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1Cor.9:27 RSV) another rendering might be "I beat my body into submission". Is the body not the "helpmate" for the man? Man is likened to a treasure in an earthen vessel. The flesh however always answers in the same way as Chava.

 

[bling]

This is the passage in Hebrew:

​

וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֨אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃ וַתֹּ֥אמֶר הָֽאִשָּׁ֖ה אֶל־הַנָּחָ֑שׁ מִפְּרִ֥י עֵֽץ־הַגָּ֖ן נֹאכֵֽל׃ וּמִפְּרִ֣י הָעֵץ֮ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּתוֹךְ־הַגָּן֒ אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֗ים לֹ֤א תֹֽאכְלוּ֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ וְלֹ֥א תִגְּע֖וּ בּ֑וֹ פֶּן־תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־מ֖וֹת תְּמֻתֽוּן׃
​

When the serpent addresses the woman, it is in the common third-person plural. There are no feminine third-person plurals used here. In the two instances in which “you shall die” appears, it is defective (missing one instance of the letter vav [ו]) and takes an unnecessary final nun [ן]. Thus, we have תמתון (tamutun) instead of תמותו (tamutu). This is not the feminine plural form, which would be תָּמוֹתְנָה (tamotna). Both defective spelling and the addition of a final nun to plural verbal forms is common in biblical Hebrew. This form is neither “irregular” (assuming that you mean “unusual” or “uncommon”) nor feminine plural.

The “you” of this dialogue is in the masculine plural, which includes the woman and her husband.

Thank you very much for taking the time to address my question.

Do you have any logic for the serpent addressing the woman instead of the man at this time?

Is the serpent trying to elevate the woman’s position?

Does this really suggest Adam was in close proximity to Eve when she sinned?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Thank you very much for taking the time to address my question.

Do you have any logic for the serpent addressing the woman instead of the man at this time?

Is the serpent trying to elevate the woman’s position?

Does this really suggest Adam was in close proximity to Eve when she sinned?

This is an etiological myth. It is designed to explain why woman is subservient to her husband, why she suffers in childbearing, why snakes crawl on their bellies and are hated by people, why men work so hard and get so little from their labors. It is not telling us a history or what really happened. You shouldn’t try to understand why the snake talked or why he talked to a specific person (snakes don't take - never did). Instead, you should understand what explanation they are trying to create for the way things are.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

This is an etiological myth. It is designed to explain why woman is subservient to her husband, why she suffers in childbearing, why snakes crawl on their bellies and are hated by people, why men work so hard and get so little from their labors. It is not telling us a history or what really happened. You shouldn’t try to understand why the snake talked or why he talked to a specific person (snakes don't take - never did). Instead, you should understand what explanation they are trying to create for the way things are.

Shouldn't we kill all the snakes?

 

[visionary]

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Sly.... are we underestimating the wisdom of the serpent.??

Bible says we are to be wise as serpents... So does this mean that God thinks we should do better in the subtil/sly department

 

[yonah_mishael]

Shouldn't we kill all the snakes?

Why?

 

[David Ben Yosef]

This is an etiological myth. It is designed to explain why woman is subservient to her husband, why she suffers in childbearing, why snakes crawl on their bellies and are hated by people, why men work so hard and get so little from their labors. It is not telling us a history or what really happened. You shouldn’t try to understand why the snake talked or why he talked to a specific person (snakes don't take - never did). Instead, you should understand what explanation they are trying to create for the way things are.

Yonah's back!!! Maybe this forum can begin to heal like I've been praying for.

 

[Avodat]

This is an etiological myth. It is designed to explain why woman is subservient to her husband, why she suffers in childbearing, why snakes crawl on their bellies and are hated by people, why men work so hard and get so little from their labors. It is not telling us a history or what really happened. You shouldn’t try to understand why the snake talked or why he talked to a specific person (snakes don't take - never did). Instead, you should understand what explanation they are trying to create for the way things are.

So, given that it was obviously written back into the story - who wrote it? Moses? J, E, D or P? Other(s)

 

[HannibalFlavius]

Why?

If it was really a snake speaking to Eve, and really snakes sat at enmity with the sons of man, aren't they all the devil?


My point is this~ It is not speaking of literal snakes, but a snake has swallowed every one of us, and he is a part of what we are.

 

[visionary]

If it was really a snake speaking to Eve, and really snakes sat at enmity with the sons of man, aren't they all the devil?


My point is this~ It is not speaking of literal snakes, but a snake has swallowed every one of us, and he is a part of what we are.

Just as the donkey was used to speak through, so is the snake.

 

[daq]

If it was really a snake speaking to Eve, and really snakes sat at enmity with the sons of man, aren't they all the devil?


My point is this~ It is not speaking of literal snakes, but a snake has swallowed every one of us, and he is a part of what we are.

Perhaps then the snake has a name like "Bel Bela" ??

"And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: (bela`) and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall."

Come out of her my people! There is leprosy in the walls of her house!