The End of Days

[HIM]

Are you referring to this verse?
And pray that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath, (Matt. 24:20)

Yes that is it. How is verse 20 connected to the rest of the chapter?

 

[oikonomia]

Yes that is it. How is verse 20 connected to the rest of the chapter?

In Matthew 24,25 the Lord Jesus answers three questions of His disciples right after He tells
them of the destruction of the beautiful temple Herod had built. Their question also
was prompted by His teaching in 23:32-39.

His answer is in three sections.
Matthew 24:4-31 concerning Israel.
Matthew 24:32-25:30 concerning the church
Matthew 25:31-46 concerning the Gentile nations.

I only want to highlght two aspects though that concerning Israel and the church respectively.

And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, When will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming and of the consummation of the age? (v3)

1.) When will these things be?
2.) And what will be the sign of Your coming
3.) and of the consummation of the age?

The Lord answers them yet according to two statuses that the disciples have.
He answers them according to their status as Israelite members of that nation (the elect).
He answers them according to their status as typical members of the church.

If this is not clearly grasped the chronology of the events He speaks of will be confusion.
And this confusion will lead to much debates as to the time of His second coming.

Matthew 24:4-31 are His replies according to their status as Jewish members of the nation of Israel.
Matthew 24:32-25:30 are His replies according to their status as constituents of the Christian church.

The transition occurs between verse 31 and 32.
The passage about warning that their flight not be on the Sabbath is in the first section (24:15-31).
That is in view of their being national Israelites awaiting the nations Messiah.

Verse 20 - And pray that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath,

Try reading Matthew 24:4 through Matthew 25:30 with this in mind.
Pay attention to what utterances are in what section.

 

[Gary K]

What makes you think I am unhappy?
I have confidence in the Lord that in our lives the Holy Spirit has to eventually have the last word.

Because you specifically said attending church and then started talking about how the church is not a building.

 

[oikonomia]

Because you specifically said attending church and then started talking about how the church is not a building.

I made two points highlighting human thought which is too often void of the bible's revelation.

1.) The regenerated is a part of the church. For the church is a living body of Christ.
2.) The concept of a "church service" comes down to people because of a professional class, a hierarchical structure in which
a "service" of worship is conducted for essentially passove spectators.

Do we "go to church"? Well, it is more accurate that the church comes together.

Do we attend a "church service"? We should see more we come as functioning priests - the priesthood of believers.

As for being unhappy. I have never been more happy knowing that this religious darkness is passing away.
The reality of Christ and the church cannot but ultimately be vindicated. It is only a matter of time.

For the Lord said He would build His church. The gates of Hades cannot prevail against her.
And some of these natural minded concepts are actually assaults in the truth from the gates of Hades.
Ie. We go to a physical building called a church.
Ie. We passively spectate a "service" put on for us by a meditorial class of professional spiritual people.

 

[Gary K]

I made two points highlighting human thought which is too often void of the bible's revelation.

1.) The regenerated is a part of the church. For the church is a living body of Christ.
2.) The concept of a "church service" comes down to people because of a professional class, a hierarchical structure in which
a "service" of worship is conducted for essentially passove spectators.

Do we "go to church"? Well, it is more accurate that the church comes together.

Do we attend a "church service"? We should see more we come as functioning priests - the priesthood of believers.

As for being unhappy. I have never been more happy knowing that this religious darkness is passing away.
The reality of Christ and the church cannot but ultimately be vindicated. It is only a matter of time.

For the Lord said He would build His church. The gates of Hades cannot prevail against her.
And some of these natural minded concepts are actually assaults in the truth from the gates of Hades.
Ie. We go to a physical building called a church.
Ie. We passively spectate a "service" put on for us by a meditorial class of professional spiritual people.

I don't disagree that God's church is made up of people. However we are told to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together especially as ye see the day approaching. Do we live in the end times? Yes, our societies have become nothing but evil continually. Just like in the days of Noah.

We need fellowship with like believers to encourage and love one another, and share our faith with and hear one another's insights into scripture as we all come from different backgrounds and thus have different perspectives on the same scriptural passages even though we believe alike.

Sabbath school is something I really miss if I don't go to church for that is the participatory part of the church service. Everyone has the opportunity to share what they think and have learned that week. It has always been my favorite part of going to church.

 

[HIM]

In Matthew 24,25 the Lord Jesus answers three questions of His disciples right after He tells
them of the destruction of the beautiful temple Herod had built. Their question also
was prompted by His teaching in 23:32-39.

His answer is in three sections.
Matthew 24:4-31 concerning Israel.
Matthew 24:32-25:30 concerning the church
Matthew 25:31-46 concerning the Gentile nations.

I only want to highlght two aspects though that concerning Israel and the church respectively.

And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, When will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming and of the consummation of the age? (v3)

1.) When will these things be?
2.) And what will be the sign of Your coming
3.) and of the consummation of the age?

The Lord answers them yet according to two statuses that the disciples have.
He answers them according to their status as Israelite members of that nation (the elect).
He answers them according to their status as typical members of the church.

If this is not clearly grasped the chronology of the events He speaks of will be confusion.
And this confusion will lead to much debates as to the time of His second coming.

Matthew 24:4-31 are His replies according to their status as Jewish members of the nation of Israel.
Matthew 24:32-25:30 are His replies according to their status as constituents of the Christian church.

The transition occurs between verse 31 and 32.
The passage about warning that their flight not be on the Sabbath is in the first section (24:15-31).
That is in view of their being national Israelites awaiting the nations Messiah.

Verse 20 - And pray that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a Sabbath,

Try reading Matthew 24:4 through Matthew 25:30 with this in mind.
Pay attention to what utterances are in what section.

There is no division. Verse 20 is connected to all of it my friend by the use of the conjunctive particles, for, and, for. wherefore, for, for and, and respectively. This means that Jesus expected His follows to be keeping the Sabbath until His return.
And the adverb "then" in verse 24 shows us that what is about to be said relies on what was previously stated. Verse 26's use of the particle "wherefore" shows us that what is about to be said is connected to verse 24. The context also makes this apparent. Then with the continuous use of the particle "for" in verses 27 and 28 coupled with the particle "and" in verses 30 and 31 we are shown what is about to be said is directly connected to what was said the whole way back to verse 4 actually. So as was said Jesús expected and therefore expects His follows to be keeping the Sabbath up through the destruction of the Temple through the tribulation prior to and up to His Second coming and the gathering of the elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven unto the other.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[HIM]

I made two points highlighting human thought which is too often void of the bible's revelation.

1.) The regenerated is a part of the church. For the church is a living body of Christ.
2.) The concept of a "church service" comes down to people because of a professional class, a hierarchical structure in which
a "service" of worship is conducted for essentially passove spectators.

Do we "go to church"? Well, it is more accurate that the church comes together.

Do we attend a "church service"? We should see more we come as functioning priests - the priesthood of believers.

As for being unhappy. I have never been more happy knowing that this religious darkness is passing away.
The reality of Christ and the church cannot but ultimately be vindicated. It is only a matter of time.

For the Lord said He would build His church. The gates of Hades cannot prevail against her.
And some of these natural minded concepts are actually assaults in the truth from the gates of Hades.
Ie. We go to a physical building called a church.
Ie. We passively spectate a "service" put on for us by a meditorial class of professional spiritual people.

Amen! To much emphasis is given to the building and not the Body.

I don't disagree that God's church is made up of people. However we are told to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together especially as ye see the day approaching. Do we live in the end times? Yes, our societies have become nothing but evil continually. Just like in the days of Noah.

We need fellowship with like believers to encourage and love one another, and share our faith with and hear one another's insights into scripture as we all come from different backgrounds and thus have different perspectives on the same scriptural passages even though we believe alike.

Sabbath school is something I really miss if I don't go to church for that is the participatory part of the church service. Everyone has the opportunity to share what they think and have learned that week. It has always been my favorite part of going to church.

Amen! My kids and I have Sabbath School at home so as to keep the kids active participants. When my wife is not at the Nursing home, she joins us. The Church we attend is across the street so, when we are finished, we go there for the song service, prayer and praise and sermon to fellowship with the congregation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no division. Verse 20 is connected to all of it my friend by the use of the conjunctive particles, for, and, for. wherefore, for, for and, and respectively. This means that Jesus expected His follows to be keeping the Sabbath until His return.
And the adverb "then" in verse 24 shows us that what is about to be said relies on what was previously stated. Verse 26's use of the particle "wherefore" shows us that what is about to be said is connected to verse 24. The context also makes this apparent. Then with the continuous use of the particle "for" in verses 27 and 28 coupled with the particle "and" in verses 30 and 31 we are shown what is about to be said is directly connected to what was said the whole way back to verse 4 actually. So as was said Jesús expected and therefore expects His follows to be keeping the Sabbath up through the destruction of the Temple through the tribulation prior to and up to His Second coming and the gathering of the elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven unto the other.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Yes, the Sabbath is to be kept - seems clear to me

Isaiah 56 Thus says the Lord:

1“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

 

[HIM]

Yes, the Sabbath is to be kept - seems clear to me

Isaiah 56 Thus says the Lord:

1“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Is clear indeed!

 

[BobRyan]

Clare73 said:
Jesus is our Sabbath in the NT

Do you have a "Jesus is our Sabbath" text?? OR are you offering yourself as the "source" for that idea?

Do you have a "God is Trinity" text?

Do you have a "God is sovereign" text?

I assume this is your way of saying you have no such text.

I have Heb 3:7-4:11.

We have you not quoting Heb 3:7-4:11 at any point saying something like "Jesus is our Sabbath"

We have you not quoting any "God is Trinity" nor "God is sovereign" texts.

I have me referencing "One God" Deut 6:4 in three persons Matt 28:19 (And also Dan 2:20-21 for the sovereignty of God)

Still we do not have you addressing the basic irrefutable facts on the Sabbath topic #1 or supporting your own "Jesus is our Sabbath" statement.

 

[Clare73]

I assume this is your way of saying you have no such text.

We have you not quoting Heb 3:7-4:11 at any point saying something like "Jesus is our Sabbath"

I have me referencing "One God" Deut 6:4 in three persons Matt 28:19 (And also Dan 2:20-21 for the sovereignty of God)

Still we do not have you addressing the basic irrefutable facts on the Sabbath topic #1 or supporting your own "Jesus is our Sabbath" statement.

We have you not understanding what rest those NT Hebrews were failing to enter in Heb 3:7-4:11 (3:19, 4:1, 6-11).

 

[BobRyan]

We have you not understanding what rest those NT Hebrews were failing to enter in Heb 3:7-4:11 (3:19, 4:1, 6-11).

False accusation much?

You have to show something to be true to make a compelling argument. I have only stated facts that all can read so far, not hollow accusations.

 

[oikonomia]

I don't disagree that God's church is made up of people. However we are told to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together especially as ye see the day approaching.

That is a good point. For the church becomes strong in the assembling together to meet and also to live.

Do we live in the end times? Yes, our societies have become nothing but evil continually.

That is true. The need to come together to strengthen one another against the decline is more critical.
To meet two by two or three by three is critical. I do not say every gathering of two or three is a church.
But the detailed mutual encouragement, building up, love and supplying each other with grace is so critical in this decline.

This kind of gathering online can be very profitable imo. That is if we edify one another. That builds up in faith with
the words of the faith. The natural tendency may be to dispute and argue our case. But behind this don't we
feel sometimes the Spirit of the Lord is flowing?

Maybe no two Christians see every nonessentail minute doctrinal matter exactly the same. But speaking and writing
Christ Himself in our writings to one another is a modern "assembling" is some sense. I mean the Lord is using the
technology. The Lord knows His enemy will use the technology to spread every evil thing and lie.

But we Christians use the technology, or we should use it, to speak Christ and life into one another.
It is good to humble ourselves and pray for those we post to and that they in turn pray for us.

Just like in the days of Noah.

It is terrible. Everyone can see the decline, the degradation. But the gates of Hell will not prevail against the builded church.
And we may faulter here or there. But we can learn to speak divine life and edification to everyone especially those of the household
of faith.

So if you find yourself arguing with me and I with you, we just prove all things and hold fast to what is good.
Christ is everywhere in the Bible. Theology with no Christ is vanity. We have to see Christ everywhere in Scripture.
We should not be like the Pharisees who searched the Scriptures but would not come to the One that Scripture
constantly testified to.

We need fellowship with like believers to encourage and love one another, and share our faith with and hear one another's insights into scripture as we all come from different backgrounds and thus have different perspectives on the same scriptural passages even though we believe alike.

Sabbath school is something I really miss if I don't go to church for that is the participatory part of the church service. Everyone has the opportunity to share what they think and have learned that week. It has always been my favorite part of going to church.

I hope you find a way to meet with even a small group of saints to do that. Here you can get into some of that.
It is fool hearty to not realize others do have something to offer which I could benefit from.

The Body is a matter of us being used by the Spirit to temper one another, blend one another, and build up one another
with the words of the faith.

I try to practice reading with my spirit any passages that a Christian quotes even if I do not agree with some point he or she makes.
I feel I cannot go wrong to read in Spirit the pure word with a heart turned towards the Lord. The word is a practical way
to taste the Lord Jesus.

What were we talking about anyway? I forgot. Jesus is Lord. O yes. Something about church, churches, the church - glorious.
She is glorious.

 

[Clare73]

False accusation much?

You have to show something to be true to make a compelling argument. I have only stated facts that all can read so far, not hollow accusations.

It's a matter of understanding what is purported in such Scriptures as Ge 15:5, 17:8, Ro 5:12-14, Gal 3:19, Heb 3:7-4:11, etc.